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Churchgoers can't seem to understand this, but I'd like some input as to how to make this clearer to them...
I have tremendously much more respect for an atheist who quietly does good, than a religious person who does EXACTLY the same thing.
-----Why? We here know, it's because the atheist doesn't do the act for "a heavenly reward", whereas the religious person....

njoy_life_2 7 Feb 23
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1

That is very difficult since the church dogma is based on acceptance of JC as savior, Even an evil man can be "saved" and enter heaven if he accepts JC as savior before death. It teaches you can not get into heaven by good deeds alone. But more to your point there are many instances in their book that mentions

  1. knowing people by what they do and not what the profess
    {Matthew 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them}
  2. the rich young man who asked what good deeds he could do to get into heaven and was told to give up his wealth and he refused
    {Mark 10:17-23 ... it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.}
    That brings us to all the riches you accumulate in heaven by sacrificing here on earth, which is what I was taught that many churches now have turned their back on.
    And lastly, my all time fav
  3. those that profess the faith but do not follow the FULL premise of the faith: It claims that all those who profess Christian faith should ALSO do good deeds, but nowhere does it say that a good deed doing person can go to heaven for doing good deeds, unless he (an innocent children) are ignorant of the word of god.
    {James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds?}

So basically the greatest sin is just denying/defying/ignoring their "god" even after they have told you about him.

Candy Level 4 Feb 24, 2018
1

I believe that all acts of charity, deep down, are partly based on ego. We want to make ourselves feel good so we do for others. Sure, there's compassion, that goes without saying. But we get a feel good reward. It's too bad that feeling isn't as addicting as opioids.

True...

4

When I help someone and they say "thank God" I always tell them that God had his chance and did nothing. I am the one who helped you, not God. Then they say "you will be blessed by God" and I say I do not believe in God and I helped you because you needed help not for a reward.

Best way to handle that is the Southern gal's guide to good manners. Just say "well, bless your heart" and leave it at that. If the person is at all acquainted with what that really means from a Southern belle, hopefully they'll STFU PDQ.

I understand that

I have trained my southern mama (86 years old) instead of Thank God she should say Praise God, AND Thank Candy since I am the one that actually did something (besides "pray" for it to happen)

2

You may be assuming that a religious person, or in your example, particularly a religious Christian can’t have a basic inane goodness. The reason I specified Christian is that Jews don’t have heaven, so there’s no reward and someone who understands will have to explain the complexities of Muslim heaven, so I don’t know how basic goodness affects inclusion or exclusion.
Anyway, bottom line is that even people who subscribe to religion can be good.

Yes, when commenting on an earlier post, I realized I'd phrased my original post badly, (perhaps I'll add a post script to it to correct that). It isn't JUST their desire to appease god, but when that's their only or main reason. (For example, how many pro lifers would adopt the baby they want to save.)

Part of my motivation here is to shore up faulty logic on my part, by seeking other thoughts than just my own.

(There's a dearth of logic based people I can speak with in RL, )

My comment to the next to the last post concluded with ..."Part of my issue here, (I just realized) is the ultra religious' assumption that we CANNOT be good people without religion/a "god" breathing down our respective necks."

1

Yes, I can't respect the motivation behind 'the do gooder,' it seems like a kind of munipulation, not given from a place of love with no other expectations!

Ty, I'm grateful for people being good/kind. Yet their motivations matter.

Now I'm thinking of politicians. So not this thread!!!!????

3

To me it doesn't matter who saves the kid from drowning, only that the kid is saved.

Oh yes!

But there are other, less drastic, examples. Ex. When I left work and saw a frail, older, shabbily dressed woman shying away from crossing the street. It cost me nothing but a few seconds to help her, gained me nothing but a pleasant feeling. (Which some might argue WAS a reward)

No doubt many church goers would also just want to do good, but in my original post, I was speaking of those religious folks whose focus (narrowly or widely) would have been on "how Jesus would approve."

Part of my issue here, (I just realized) is the ultra religious' assumption that we CANNOT be good people without religion/a "god" breathing Dow our respective necks.

2

I completely agree. religious people have something else morals really where we have our own. quite ironic they often ask about our moral fibre

Yes, my morality, whatever others may think, at least stems from my attempts to be/do good. Not from a (sometimes, arbitrary) outside source.

Of course, my ethics aren't innate. They stem from many sources, including having been treated unjustly myself, and doing wrong, myself. Seeing and admitting that i my actions were wrong helped me to alter such behavior.

that's right, being human in fact.

2

Religious or otherwise I have respect for anybody that performs an act of kindness for no return or with no caveats involved. I like to think I do all manner of 'nice' things during the course of the day from making someone a cuppa to maybe donating time/money etc but for me it's an end unto itself and I don't keep score. I'm also aware of god believing people who do the same and if they choose to give their god some credit then fine. If it motivates them in the first place is that good or bad? I don't know, it doesn't bother me whether they make the coffee or god does. But it maybe asks the question that we get thrown at us about morals, we get our morals from within us, they get them from an external force, does that not make ours more genuine and human?

I feel motivation matters, @ipdg77. But I loved reading what you wrote. .. Of such things are growing minds made.

2

I agree, but too many Christians if they are nice because of the reward of heaven or the fear of eternal damnnation, not because it is the right way to live. Most of the best people I have known are non-believers. They don't need a carrot or a stick to be a decent human being

A carrot, or fear of that threat... Groan....

4

Maybe not for a heavenly reward, but I've known atheist/agnostics to do it for publicity. To me that's just as bad.

I agree kiramea. I mentioned "quietly", do I kinda meant " without being recognised" (I couldn't spell anonomusly, lol) so yes, I totally agree.

You are right,but I'm talking about folks who live that way because it is who they are.

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