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Has anyone here had any experience of or with Satanists? A gay young man I met is a Satanist and has a Satanist Bible, which, as I understand it, is not about a literal Satanic figure as much as a philosophy of life that differs at key points from Christianity.
He is also an atheist, but does what is called 'light magic' which, apparently, is skillful manipulation.
I'm interested to learn if there are people here who are Satanists.

Doubting 6 May 15
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No who cares

bobwjr Level 10 May 28, 2019

I do, as is evident from my post. I'm interested in understanding this atheist's stance in wanting to be a Satanist. I fail to understand how replying "Who cares" advances a conversation. Surely if you don't care you'd simply not comment. I thought this site catered to people who are atheists, agnostic or doubters and who want to explore ideas and engage civilly with other members. Have a good day @bobwjr

Just saying it should not matter it is so varied

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At the American Atheist convention in April there was a talk by a member of The Satanic Temple and she listed over a dozen different ‘satan’ groups and there purposes and principles vary widely.
I suggest using street epistemology the same way you would for other beliefs.

Thanks @GwenBFree

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Getting you to believe that “skillfull manipulation” is “light magic” IS skillfull manipulation. Keep your shields up and phasers on ready.

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I base my life on good sense. The 10 commandments from the Bible or santaism rules can be boil down to 2 rules .
Do not harm and be honest.

Since Satan believes in God it makes no sense to use it to separate church and States because you become another form of Religious church and just an adversary
Best to stick to non believers, for they are fastest growing group in the world. You don't to have a phony church for lying taxes.

Non believers would not need to create hate, or be against that can lead to harm and dishonesty. In order to protect their group.

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I am friends with some satanists. It's more of a theatrical way to achieve separation of church and state.

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Satanism is just more confusion.

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Thanks @Wurlitzer. (Travis). The left/right analogy you use is helpful.
The guy I get wants to do nothing more than eg burn a bible in front of a Christian he entices.

No prob, there’s a great podcast from TST’s perspective called Black Mass Appeal and one of the nice ladies from that Bay Area group is on this site intermittently, runs the satanic agnosis group if it’s still active I think.

And yeah theatrically being a douche sounds like LaVay’s brand. TST doesn’t exactly spend any effort trolling Christians unless it can make a political difference. Eg the baphomet statue they move around to propose putting on courthouse lawns when 10 commandments get installed on government property. Or satanists signing up to give the opening prayer in city counsel meetings that have no business doing anything religious in the first place. It’s a means to call the bluff of religious freedom and bring attention to how one particular religion is controlling politics in so many ways in the US.

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I don’t like Anton LaVay or the Satanic Bible (this was the founder of the Church of Satan). I do consider myself satanist by TST (The Satanic Temple) standards though, different group in a lot of ways. If Church of Satan is like the Catholicism of Satanism (lots of sexism and bullshit mysticism), TST would be like the left leaning politically active Unitarians of Satanism. But yeah as far as I know both groups are atheistic at heart and don’t literally believe in Satan except as a symbol of christianity’s adversary.

but do they have a religious compenent to their churchs or it is pure trolling of Christians?

@AtKins well it depends on how you qualify religious component. I would say yes Satanism does qualify as a legitimate religion in its own right if that’s what you’re asking. If you’re asking does it have ritual and community then yes. If you’re asking if it has spirituality and metaphysical conditions then no.

More so than trolling of Christians it’s meant as a way to outright reject the personal shame they lay on us by embracing the opposing side of their myopic coin. It’s the antidote to religion; whatever damage Christianity did to us, Satanism is designed to empower you to get over. In that sense I think it is a religion, just not one that requires anything supernatural. Legitimately if I were to believe in what the Bible says I would call Satan the hero and god the villain. Satan wanted us to have knowledge and grow; god was a jealous prick.

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I'm a member of The Satanic Temple. They don't believe in Satan, but do believe in the strict separation of Chruch and State.

I have also considered the Anton LeVey version of Satanism including owning a copy of the Satanic Bible. I decided that it didn't appeal to me.

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A long time ago, in San Diego. Honestly, they were nice, very sharing people. An older couple that feed anyone of their friends or followers and ran a small, successful business linked to clothing and costume designing. Anyway, they seemed in action and dress a lot like christians only with a different spiritual bent. Not my cup of tea. They did have good weed.

Ha ha! Well, if they have good weed...

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LaVey was nothing more than a self-centered ego-worshiping athiest. He was also a compulsive liar by his own admission. Saying satanist is wrong in this case.

I know nothing about him and I don't yet know the extent to which this guy subscribes to his views. I do know he's passionate about calling himself a Satanist and loves to bait Christians. As someone with ever increasing doubts such that I don't consider myself a believer anymore, he is keen to be sure I completely disavow Christianity.

@Doubting He had a tiger. Really. There are only two true satanic groups I know of. One is Mistrolanthic Luciferian Order (which I think is gone). The other is Temple of the Black Light. He was not a satanist. Watch the documentary The Devil's Mass. It made ma laugh.

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The man that you met was a LaVey Satanist, and though their tenants are far superior to Christianity's, all forms of supernatural manipulations of reality (i.e. "magic" ) are fictional. To call good deeds that engender or endear or ingratiate oneself toward the favor of another "light magic" is disingenuous at best, and delusional at worst. Though not a Satanist myself (as I am an antitheist atheist, just as most Satanists are), I much prefer the Satanic Temple to LaVey Satanism, also known as The Church of Satan, as the former is straight forward about their being a parody of organized religion and that they don't believe in the supernatural in any form. That, and the fact that they give the Christians a taste of their own medicine by fighting fire with fire, all the while pointing out the hypocrisy of their opponents. Beating them at their own game, as it were. Either way, it mainly appeals to angsty goth and emo teenagers that have grown into angsty former goth and emo adults who can't let go of their pasts and still love to wear velvet capes, pentagrams, Death Metal t-shirts over fishnet sleeves, platform boots, spiked bracelets and chokers, and too much black eye makeup and nail polish.

Not putting down Goth fashion... I went through that phase in my youth. And had I known about the Satanic Temple back then, I'd have been a Satanist. But everyone grows up... eventually.

Thanks Kafirah. I hadn't understood the 2 different strands of Satanism. That all makes sense.

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Most of us here are satanists

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Satanic Temple’s Seven Tenets Are Morally Superior To Ten Commandments
[patheos.com]

From Wikipedia"
"The Satanic Bible is composed of four books: The Book of Satan, The Book of Lucifer, The Book of Belial, and The Book of Leviathan. The Book of Satan challenges the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule, and promotes Epicureanism."
.
So . . . . what is Epicureanism?

"Epicureanism is a system of philosophy based upon the teachings of the ancient Greek philosopher Epicurus, founded around 307 BC. Epicurus was an atomic materialist, following in the steps of Democritus. His materialism led him to a general attack on superstition and divine intervention. Following Aristippus-about whom very little is known-Epicurus believed that what he called "pleasure" was the greatest good, but that the way to attain such pleasure was to live modestly, to gain knowledge of the workings of the world, and to limit one's desires. This would lead one to attain a state of tranquility (ataraxia) and freedom from fear as well as an absence of bodily pain (aponia). The combination of these two states constitutes happiness in its highest form. Although Epicureanism is a form of hedonism insofar as it declares pleasure to be its sole intrinsic goal, the concept that the absence of pain and fear constitutes the greatest pleasure, and its advocacy of a simple life, make it very different from "hedonism" as it is colloquially understood."

Not quite what you expected, right?

IN PRAISE OF THE DEVIL
[lucifer.com]

THHA Level 7 May 15, 2019
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not i. my understanding is that the satanic temple named itself that to annoy christians and otherwise has nothing to do with the christian character, satan (note that in the hebrew bible, there is no devil/satan/beelzebub/etc. but rather a prosecuting attorney, or ha-satan, who works for god) but rather advocates for freedom of religion. i have mixed feelings about that. on the one hand, good for them! on the other hand, it does rather reinforce ignorant folks' impression of atheists as satanic. guess you can't win them all.

g

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