Agnostic.com

11 2

WHO OR WHAT IS ‘GOD’? - -
Because it would be fruitless to attempt proof of the existence of something which is undefined, ineffable, or too mysterious for finite minds to understand or describe, one has to make a decision about what is meant by ‘God’ in talk of ‘arguments for God’s existence’. It is common for religious apologists to respond to critiques of these arguments by claiming that deity is ineffable and incomprehensible, which of course closes down the debate, for by definition there is nothing to be said about what nothing can be said about.

Religious apologists find, despite this, a great deal to be said about such an entity after all — that it exists, that it has such and such a nature (‘is love’, is omniscient, omnipotent, morally pure, and the like), and that it requires certain commitments and behaviours from us...

(From: "The Oxford Handbook of Atheism" )

Matias 8 Aug 26
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

11 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

0

Well, the burden of proof is on the proponents of the existence of god. Now, as an atheist, I am not obligated to proof a negative (the non existence of god), and in fact, that would be impossible. However, we can use reason to reach the conclusion that the existence of a god as described in, say, the Bible, is not possible.

2

One way to approach the question “What is God?” is to first recognize that, in spite of mass ignorance of factual information, there has never been a time when a majority of our species has been what modern science would call psychotic. The popular (among atheists) habit of referring to religion as a mental illness has no basis in science.

A useful question to ask then, is, what were all these ignorant-but-mentally-competent people really responding to in their experience, that they were calling God? It had to be something, if they were not psychotic.

It would not be crazy to assume they were simply responding to the collective effects of the entire seen and unseen forces of the natural world, and personifying that abstraction as God. Much like ignorant people envisioned infectious diseases as evil spirits, when in fact, they were microscopic pathogens. They were very real, but just mischaracterized due to ignorance.

The collective forces of the natural world are real if anything is. They are indeed, taken as a whole, “all powerful” and they did create humankind. We are all subject to the laws and whims of this “higher power” which did, and does, provide for our sustenance, and corrects us when we stray too far. And, in its totality, it is very much ineffable.

So Spinoza was right; God does exist. It’s just that our philosophical understanding of him hasn’t kept pace with our understanding of infectious disease organisms. We are still ignorant of how our own minds work.

skado Level 9 Aug 26, 2019
0

No god/universal intelligence is necessary for the universe to behave as it does. Therefore, I see no reason to believe that one (or more) exist(s).

Those who claim that this god is ineffable and incomprehensible are in fact making claims about such a being--as well as stating there is only ONE god/intelligence that is ineffable. How do they know this? Well, they don't.

I don't have an issue with anyone who thinks there might be one, or more, until they start giving this intelligence human attributes, claim that they know what it wants, and try to force others to live according to their understanding of such a being.

0

Define first in order to discuss itself is fallacious. Do we need to define soul first before we discuss. We don‘t. Kwowleldge can come from encounters of humans of something unfamiliar to us. We don't need to define something, such as big foot to discuss its existence, as long as there are credible claims of encounters.

The Bibile stands for valid accounts of encounters portraying a God of the same characteristics. You may queation its credibility to consider it a novel. You can also start with treating it as a valid account of testimonies.

0

Every religion, every sect within every religion, and every individual within every sect has a unique idea about what god is and what it means. If we went around debating over which ideas were correct we would be wasting our breath, because without any evidence its all wild speculation.

That's all religion is, wild speculation that some have used to obtain power over the anxious, ignorant, and uncritical masses. It will forever be uses that way so long as humans maintain biological constraints.

0

Maybe the solution is to drop the word “God” from the lexicon. We could still refer to gods and goddesses of antiquity, but for modern usage we could just say “the great unknown”, “ultimate reality”, “universal intelligence” or something like that. I seldom refer to God anyway because of erroneous associations and because many people have negative reactions.

There really is something ineffable and incomprehensible about existence and as such not much can be said about it, except I think it is subjective with respect to our true selves. It is not “out there”—it is within.

Ultimate reality is not something to be proven, to be argued over, to be believed or disbelieved. Many religious groups throw the word “God” around carelessly and make unbelievable claims about “God” and give meaningless descriptions such as the “omni’s”. You might argue and disprove those claims but because something has been erroneously described, that doesn’t invalidate the thing.

0

Keep in mind that religious apologists usually work from the perceived ideas of their particular holy book. It is this book first of all that has set in mind ideas of a deity. Remember that the book itself was not complete or considered as complete until almost 300 years after Jesus. This was done by council and decree with many books being left out or said to be false. It is only at this time that we have the "infallible" word of god but the many books together as one are also a main source of contradiction. Within this written frame is all knowledge as we know it about Jehovah the tribal god. In some passages his name is Jealous. Oh, what a giant mess we have here after 300 years in the making.

Knowing the above helps me understand that knowledge of gods is all bullshit. Then the next guy comes along and says "well, there could be a god anyway." A god of what? Do you know anyone who was raised from the dead or flew to heaven on a winged horse? How about talking snakes. Did you ever meet a talking snake?

2

Consider this approach - Existence is god. It hasn't a personality, nor will it care what you do or how you dress. It simply is. It has no cognitive plan for what you are going to do in your life. It doesn't demand the extermination of those who think a bit differently. It simply is.
Pray to it if you want, but don't go out and murder, rape or steal because of it.

0

I'll go with science and facts.

1

Great point: "It is common for religious apologists to respond to critiques of these arguments by claiming that deity is ineffable and incomprehensible, which of course closes down the debate, for by definition there is nothing to be said about what nothing can be said about."

What ISN'T "ineffable and incomprehensible" is SCIENCE and FACTS.

"Philosophy is questions that can never be answered. Religion is answers that can never be questioned."
-- Anon

0

Fancy words ("ineffable"??????) for The Tooth Fairy!

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:393984
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.