@Allamanda just because you want to believe in the spirituality bs doesn't make it real, present real evidence to substantiate your point.

@Mofo1953 Present evidence yourself, if you are able, for NOT believing all the "spirituality bs."
It's all a matter of opinion. Believe what you want; we're all ears. But don't get in someone else's grill for thinking something else.

My thinking on "spirituality" is, the "spirit" is that thing that keeps us moving around when we're alive and it's absence when we pass on. Where does it go, and all that. Does it continue to exist when it leaves the body. To me, that's unknowable and the explanations in the Bible don't cover what's really going on. So, to pooh-pooh anyone's ideas or guesses as to what's going on is not valid. I'd tell everyone exactly what was going on, if I knew. Telling someone their ideas are bullshit, about spirituality is bullshit, in my opinion. It's an individual thing. Don't like the groupthink of the religious, don't like groupthink among the non-religious. We're walking our own paths and attempting to share ideas. Knee-jerk condemnation is unfriendly.

I agree with @Allamanda...it is not a very polite way to welcome a new member. We all need to be allowed to make statements of our own personal views, which are all equally valid, without being curtly shot down and told what we think is bullshit.

Glad that’s got academic research behind it!

@Mofo1953 Spirituality is not concerned with belief or disbelief. As an analogy. An artist might be trying to convey beauty and reverence. She isn’t concerned with your belief or disbelief.

@Bobby9 It might be hard to find out whether or not something exists, but proving negative assertions in general is no harder than proving positive ones. Assertions can be stated in either positive or negative terms.

While I agree with your equation, the poster said he's agnostic which simply means he doesn't know. From there one could choose to believe or not believe. Having never been religious I choose to not believe without evidence, especially in regards to the supernatural, but I think that a lot of people leaving religion cannot go all the way to skepticism in one leap. Some get there in small increments, and many never get all the way there.

@Storm1752 you are using the same ridiculous arguments that believers use to justify their gods of choice, not falling into that infantile trap, I have nothing to prove to anybody. You want to believe in bs, up to you.

@Storm1752, @WilliamFleming art is real, music is real, the sensation of awe while contemplating beauty is real, spirituality has nothing to do with all these physiological feelings.

@david75090 you are entitled to your opinion as are all of us here, don't you think?

@Mofo1953 Absolutely. As is everyone. A simple, "I disagree with what you're saying" works. Calling someone's opinion "bullshit" is not necessary, in my opinion. It can be done, obviously. It's doable, but not very friendly, in my opinion. Moreso to someone who just recently joined.

@Mofo1953, @Bobby9 Lots of folks consider their opinions to be facts.

@david75090 my opinion was an equivalency and never called anyone's opinion bullshit. Read the original post, he claims to be agnostic and somewhat spiritual. My equivalency was religion = spirituality = bullshit. Explain to me how is that calling an agnostic who is somewhat spiritual that what he posted was bullshit????

@david75090 facts are facts, opinions are not facts, there is only one truth, the one that is backed by factual evidence, anything else is purely speculation.

@Mofo1953 Of course it does, spirituality is tied in with everything no matter how you define it.

Sir Arthur Eddington:

The universe is of the nature of a thought or sensation in a universal Mind... To put the conclusion crudely — the stuff of the world is mind-stuff.

We are no longer tempted to condemn the spiritual aspects of our nature as illusory because of their lack of concreteness.

The scientific answer is relevant so far as concerns the sense-impressions... For the rest the human spirit must turn to the unseen world to which it itself belongs.

@Bobby9 It would be hard to find out with absolute certainty if unicorns exist. Hard to prove they do—hard to prove they don’t. The idea that you can’t prove a negative assertion is nothing but myth.

Proving a Negative:

[departments.bloomu.edu]

@Bobby9, @Mofo1953 just about all these “truths” are nothing but speculation in an ultimate sense. Every logical system is based on arbitrary definitions and assumptions. There is no such thing as absolute truth. An assertion can be both true and false. It can be undefined or meaningless, or it can be undecidable. It all depends on the logical system. Truth is relative.

@Mofo1953 In your mind, you're right.

@WilliamFleming the human spirit is not spiritual it is human.

@WilliamFleming prove to me that 2 plus 2 is not 4.

@david75090 thinking you are right is not factual, do not confuse that. I am giving my opinion and I stand by my opinion, yet I am not obsessive to the point that I think my opinion has to be a fact.

@Mofo1953 2+2=4 only because of definitions and assumptions. Change those and you might get a different answer.

@WilliamFleming wow great set of convincing data...NOT! don't waste my time anymore.

@Bobby9 I’m not referencing the maths...I’m referencing his rudeness. In my opinion it was quite unnecessary. Do you think this is an acceptable way to respond to a new member, even if you are in disagreement with his premise? If you do then I’m appalled that you think so.

@Bobby9

[virgil.azwestern.edu]

@Marionville your opinion. Obviously I don't share it. An Irish person thinks that saying bullshit is rude, puhleeze, I have been to Ireland, I have heard the Irish speak.

@Mofo1953 I’m not Irish! But even if I were it wouldn’t change my view. Rude is rude regardless of one’s nationality.

@Bobby9 The article I cited has nothing to do with modular arithmetic—it’s about scales. However, modular arithmetic reinforces my point.

As I said before, all logical systems are based on definitions and assumptions. There is no absolute truth. For that reason we should respect each other’s opinions.

Some of the worlds greatest intellectuals have spoken of spirituality. Opinions of people like Eddington and Einstein mean more IMO than the opinions of radical, strident physicalists.

@Bobby9 is this dude serious when he says crap like this? "There is no absolute truth. For that reason we should respect each other’s opinions."

@Bobby9 Of course scales are based on math, as is modular arithmetic. You bring back old memories. In ‘61 I took a course in abstract algebra, and a major part of it was about modular arithmetic. I still have the textbook, autographed by my professor who was also the author. On a clock 2+2=4 but 11+2=1.

Anyway, thanks for a stimulating conversation.

Thank you & I do believe in spirits. I just don't believe in any gods-as-defined-by-any-religion; but I accept the possibility that there's something I can't see or hear but is there. For me, agnostic simply means "I don't know". Generally, I consider myself an Agnostic Gnostic, i.e. I believe in what I directly experience but don't know what it is. But, as I suggested, I'm not really into talking about it...much anyway.

Thanks also for the warning..,.I have no intention of engaging with anyone who wants to "rip [me] a new one"; I came here to meet people & to enjoy myself doing so, not to argue or lock horns with anyone. I don't care what anyone believes or disbelieves, & if anyone wants to impose their views on me, I will simply delete them from my life. For me, life is too short to be hassling people about their beliefs or lack thereof.

@RichardWright What about those who languish painfully in other beliefs?