I note that some of my colleagues on this site seem to be concerned with the "godness" , spirituality, and consciousness in the universe. I am not being critical, but I do not understand that. To me, such statements start with unproven assumptions which I believe are unlikely to be true.
Some speculate on the creation of the universe and everything in it. Why must there be a beginning? What if the universe has always existed in one form or another?
Second, some talk about forces of evolution and creation in the universe and in our lives, and see some conscious force driving that. I believe that all evidence shows that the entire universe is a picture of bounded chaos. All forms of matter and energy have characteristics. Properties in each cause them to interact with other forms of matter and energy -- and to form combinations with interact with others, et cetera ad nauseum. . Some of these interactions create forms of creation or expansion. Many more of the interactions are destructive, destroying other forms and combinations again, et cetera ad nauseum. . O, all that we can say is that in this picture of bounded chaos, the situation is one of constant creation -- and destruction. There is nothing conscious or spiritual about it. It simply exists.
12
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
10 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.As I see it, this spirituality that bothers you so, does not consist of belief or disbelief, either in the supernatural or in universal consciousness. Spirituality consists, not in knowing the how or why of reality, but in being struck with shock and awe that reality exists at all. Where’s the unproven assumption behind that? You are doing the same thing when you speculate that the universe has always existed in one form or another. Your assertion has not been proven but I will graciously not point that out. 
In grappling with the staggering implications of the mystery of existence it is completely ok to engage in metaphysical speculation. Without such inquiries there’d be no science. It seems you disapprove of Max Planck and his fellow physicists speaking of Universal Consciousness, of Wheeler and his Participatory Universe, of Bohm with his Implicate Order, or of Donald Hoffman’s Conscious Realism. None of these ideas have anything to do with the supernatural.
As a Religious Naturalist, I have no use for the term “supernatural”, however, it is an inescapable fact that the world of our senses is an illusion and that there is an ultimate reality beyond that can not be understood in terms of our space/time/matter model. That is not some new-age woo—that idea is an integral part of science.
Reality is a profound mystery, a dazzling darkness of staggering proportions. Pretending to understand, to claim it’s nothing but bounded chaos or whatever, that is little different than saying that God did it.
The mystery remains.
WilliamFleming
Level 8
Jan 3, 2020
1
In philosophy, that is generally called teleological; that is relating to or involving the explanation of phenomena in terms of the purpose they serve rather than of the cause by which they arise. Given that whole species have been wiped out (the dinosaurs for example) I have difficulty understanding how people can take on that view.
As for humanity, compassion, that I consider a different story. We humans are all in this cold world together, devoid of compassion, devoid of anything that even hints at a creation or creator that would be vexed in any way if humanity disappeared. But we ourselves should. As Albert Camus said . . .
"People should reject god defiantly in order to pour out all their loving solicitude upon mankind."
And Nietzsche:
"There is not enough love and goodness in the world to permit giving any of it away to imaginary beings."
Archeus_Lore
Level 7
Jan 2, 2020
2
Bounded chaos. An oxymoron ? Let us consider the symptoms at what I would call the core.
Bounded. adjective. having bounds or limits. ... (of a function) having a range with an upper bound and a lower bound. (of a sequence) having the absolute value of each term less than or equal to some specified
Let us further say defined. Some tgibg defined is something known.
Chaos - complete disorder and confusion.
"snow caused chaos in the region"
Similar:
disorder
disarray
disorganization
confusion
mayhem
bedlam
pandemonium
madness
havoc
turmoil
tumult
commotion
disruption
upheaval
furor
frenzy
uproar
hue and cry
babel
hurly-burly
a maelstrom
a muddle
a mess
a shambles
a mare's nest
anarchy
entropy
lawlessness
bangarang
hullabaloo
all hell broken loose
a madhouse
an omnishambles
a car crash
a three-ring circus
Opposite:
order
orderliness
PHYSICS
behavior so unpredictable as to appear random, owing to great sensitivity to small changes in conditions.
the formless matter supposed to have existed before the creation of the universe.
Basically, what am I getting at, the core root basis to this is Good and Evil. Contrasting opposites.
Good and evil, positive and negative, proton and electron. Known and unknown, control and chaos. Agent 99 and "would you believe" , Taco and taco salad.
Create combine 2 things to make something new.
... would have to finish thought later, maybe this is enough to think on for now.
Word
Level 8
Jan 2, 2020
1
You obviously do not understand the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle, which states that in quantam mechanics one can predict some things only in extremely broad limits, but cannot predict specific events in time and space.
Word:
@wordywalt yes, uncertainty is of an evil sort, does Heisenberg account for the fact of the observer? If you are the observer attempting to make the uncertain prediction of something else, then you are the constant, the constant form for being the good with the observed uncertain as the rather unpredictable evil.
Word:
@Riley do you understand the oxymoron, a paradox? Chaotic order, or ordered chaos?conflate or combine order and chaos. There is chaos yet order in chaos, there is order yet chaos in order.
Consider the periodic table of elements. Perfect order starting with hydrogen 1, helium 2 ... so on. How ever, there is isotopes that cause oddities to the order.
Maybe they are searching for something in themselves? And is there any reason it can't be both?
Druvius
Level 8
Jan 2, 2020
0
It may simply be that they are trying to create an answer to something they don't understand. That is how religions arose.
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
Share this post
Categories
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.