So, you are laying claim to the existence of something despite the fact that we can't measure or detect it's existence in any way and you justify that by saying they are not measureable phenomena. Sounds a lot like the idea of god. I assume we're talking about your idea of "universal consciousness" which you substituted for soul, not individual consciousness, which is measureable.

@Cyklone individual consciousness is not measurable.

@JeffMesser Only if you define it in such a way that it can't be measured. If you define it as an epiphenomena of brain activity we are pretty good at it and getting better

@Cyklone you're making a huge assumption there and one that doesn't even correspond to what we do know about the brain. electrical activity of the brain is our consciousness accessing the brain - not its' (the consciousness' actual activity. turiya exists apart from dreams and sensory input.

@JeffMesser Sorry, that whole perspective is from one I don't subscribe to so on this point perhaps we can agree to disagree.

@Cyklone then I'd suggest you do some reading. when your narrative is challenged then it's your duty as a seeker to discover the truth. if there is any inkling to free will then it deserves a furious debate and defense. a lifelong one. and just passing the issue by is foolhardy.

@JeffMesser Perhaps, but if you read my initial post you'll notice that I said that I only believe in things which can ve measured or examined in repeatable experiments. I have a scientific background and belief in"turiya" is too wuwu for me. If I'm going to believe in untestable ideas then I might as well go back to believing in god. And that won't happen. I suggested we agree to disagree. Do you think we can do that without accusations of foolhardiness or myopia?