Having been brainwashed into religion as a child and deceived by it for so long I'm now a hard line atheist. Basically I think that if it can't be measured or examined in a repeatable experiment then for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist. I believe there are no ghosts, no soul and there is no life after death. I notice though that many people who profess to be atheists don't want to go that extra step and believe in no soul, although many do as well. If there is a soul where is it and how does it react with the body and brain because we can't find evidence of it and if it can't react with the material world then it can't change or learn and is useless. So what's this reluctance to give up on the concept of a soul all about, fear, what? Anybody have any suggestions?
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Fear of death being the end, that is all.
I find the idea of an eternal soul and everlasting afterlife to be an abomination.
The thing that makes life bearable is the knowledge that it ends, completely.
LenHazell53
Level 9
Jan 31, 2020
1
Spot on! There is a safety valve of certainty. We don't want to be toooo sure. Common demarcation: Atheist=there is no god/gods. Agnostic= can't be certain there isn't a god/gods. We still suffer the fear of karma or hubris. Even Neil deGrasse Tyson said (if he had to) he would be agnostic. I wonder what he thinks his chances are of resurrection? My view: the universe is 100% natural. The supernatural realm and eternal souls are the creations of humans. GROG
GROG
Level 6
Jan 31, 2020
0
Being an atheist and not believing in a soul are completely separate issues. I don't believe in deities but I do believe in universal consciousness that occupies this shell.
Also your analysis about measurement is rather myopic. It assumes a point of objectivity which cannot be acquired on the self. It also requires a measurable characteristic of which consciousness is not. So by epistemology standards you need another method.
JeffMesser
Level 8
Jan 31, 2020
0
So, you are laying claim to the existence of something despite the fact that we can't measure or detect it's existence in any way and you justify that by saying they are not measureable phenomena. Sounds a lot like the idea of god. I assume we're talking about your idea of "universal consciousness" which you substituted for soul, not individual consciousness, which is measureable.
@Cyklone individual consciousness is not measurable.
@JeffMesser Only if you define it in such a way that it can't be measured. If you define it as an epiphenomena of brain activity we are pretty good at it and getting better
@Cyklone you're making a huge assumption there and one that doesn't even correspond to what we do know about the brain. electrical activity of the brain is our consciousness accessing the brain - not its' (the consciousness'
actual activity. turiya exists apart from dreams and sensory input.
@JeffMesser Sorry, that whole perspective is from one I don't subscribe to so on this point perhaps we can agree to disagree.
@Cyklone then I'd suggest you do some reading. when your narrative is challenged then it's your duty as a seeker to discover the truth. if there is any inkling to free will then it deserves a furious debate and defense. a lifelong one. and just passing the issue by is foolhardy.
@JeffMesser Perhaps, but if you read my initial post you'll notice that I said that I only believe in things which can ve measured or examined in repeatable experiments. I have a scientific background and belief in"turiya" is too wuwu for me. If I'm going to believe in untestable ideas then I might as well go back to believing in god. And that won't happen. I suggested we agree to disagree. Do you think we can do that without accusations of foolhardiness or myopia?
At this point in history, I don't think human experience can be measured or examined in a repeatable experiment, but I have no doubt it exists. There are no literal ghosts, but there certainly are metaphorical ones. Metaphors exist, and point to very real conditions and experiences that humans undeniably have. There is no rational justification for denying the reality of experience. Soul, to my thinking, is just the "life" in you. It's the immaterial, experiential part of you. No woo required. When your body dies, in the most literal sense, your soul does too. But the way that you affected the world while you were alive lingers a while. Your ghost is in the memories of those who knew you. It's just colorful language, that sometimes gets mixed with superstition. And sometimes not.
skado
Level 9
Jan 31, 2020
0
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