It seems so.

I really thought there might be more to it than the cultists.

@EllenDale Unfortunately, they've all drunk the Kool-Aid.

Thanks for the belly laugh!

Still campaigning for trump, I see. Gosh, she’s pissed one person won’t ‘answer her question,’ then belly laughing over another having done the same. - done taking this post serious ~

@Varn

Did you miss the part where I Called Trump's behavior creepy?

Pointing out the flaws of one candidate does not mean you are campaigning for another.

Were you ever able to think of any persuasive arguments for voting Joe?

@Varn I laugh because it was true, but not because I agree or disagree. You merely point out powerful men act inappropriately “because they can.” I wouldn’t vote for Biden either. Touching a woman as you pass by or sniffing hair are not going to show up in pictures. It is an unprovable claim. However, I believe he has done that. Perverts are perverts.

@EllenDale

Biden has inappropriately groped children in the presence of their parents while cameras roll. If that is how he behaves in public, I don't even want to imagine what he do in private.

@RoboGraham This I didn’t know. Is sexual inappropriate so ingrained in American life that we look the other way when it’s shoved in our face?

@EllenDale

For some of us. Yeah, must be.

@RoboGraham ..more of that false equivalence we thought had been exposed: calling trump one thing, his opponent another … as if there’s barely a difference between the two..

If you still can’t decide who to vote for ...it’s likely best you stop demeaning any… including trump..

@EllenDale Knowing and wishing for better doesn't make better magically appear, or go away. We’ve guys from a different era running for president; the question should be, have they changed? I believe one has, and he had/ has my vote. The other, not at all, and apparently proud of it. And the third… other than having married someone the age of a daughter.. his power trip remains political.

@Varn

False equivalence? Trump touches his daughter in creepy cringy ways. We agree there. Does Joe not do the same sort of thing with other people's daughters? If you think not, I can show you an abundance of examples.

Sure there are differences between the two. There are also similarities and when I see them, I point them out.

I have decided who to vote for. That's beside the point though. You don't need to have made up your mind this early in the process in order to participate in the conversation. Biden is not even the official nominee yet. Trump is my ideological enemy, I will demean him at every opportunity. Biden is my ideological enemy. I will demean him at every opportunity. It's truly a sad state of affairs when both the incumbent president and his challenger are both despicable and so easily demeaned.

You have continued to avoid the question. So I'll ask you for the... third, maybe fourth time... do you have any persuasive arguments to convince people to vote for Biden?

@RoboGraham That’s some angry ..even messed up stuff. Honesty, again, I didn’t finish your rant... There’s enough vile shit going around as is. Yes, you’ve some anger I can’t help with. Sorry

@RoboGraham ...I'm back
OK, I’ve eaten, after some productive work… You may be attempting to grow, heal, or move forward, if in a condescending way. That’s the part that turns off, or triggers me. You’re looking for purity in an impure realm. Politics is not the art of purity, it’s the art of getting along, of making coalitions, connections; not proving oneself to a potential mate or partner in marriage. It’s more like a business transaction.. If moral purity is the measure, many a great leader would have fallen short.

Then there’s ideology, a bit closer to something you can reward. Prevailing ideology requires the majority mindset of the masses. As Atheists, we know better than most ...not to expect thought or behavior that matches our own, so often walk with those closest to our thinking.

trump's a creepy, mentally ill incompetent. One of his opponents is an angry revolutionary, and the other understands the political lay of the land, wanting to be remembered as someone who continued a progressive path. The nation is in bad shape, perhaps nearing a revolution.. But most don’t want that, including me. Some do, most often, those with little to lose…

If you look for problems, they’re easy to find. If you can avoid them, good for you. Most can’t. So we pick a path leading the direction we want to go, avoid temptation to leave the trail ..and proceed ahead as safely as possible. Scary times ..scary trail ~

@Varn

I am always attempting to grow and move forward, not in a condescending way but in an honest no bull shit sort of way. The condescending thing here is the way that you view the things I'm saying as a rant and think that help is required. If you look at my comments, you'll see some concise writing and logical reasoning.

You've decided not to read the entire "rant" and that must be why you have again missed the question- do you have any persuasive arguments to convince people to vote for Biden? Or perhaps you are just avoiding it because I've brought this up many times now. The only positive thing you said about Biden is he- "understands the political lay of the land, wanting to be remembered as someone who continued a progressive path." Understanding the political lay of the land is nothing special. All politicians have that quality. If you think that Biden has stepped foot on a progressive path, I'm sorry but you must be misinformed, or you have a very different idea of what progressive means.

Yes there is some messed up stuff. The way that Biden touches and sniffs women and girls is messed up. What was it that you were referring to as messed up? The part where I said he is my ideological enemy? I'm sorry if this triggers you. I can't help with that. What triggers me is your avoidance to engage. The original comment I made, you described as a false equivalent. It's not, I explained to you why and you are now avoiding that topic. If it's not something you wish to engage with, why did you insert yourself into this conversation?

Yes there is plenty of anger. Does the current state of affairs not make you angry? We've got the worst president in modern history fumbling over the worst plague in modern history, more concerned about optics than helping people and the man chosen by the democratic party as our nominee is showing no leadership. He was MIA for 6 days and the best he could do was give a lackluster speech in which he read some vague platitudes off a teleprompter. We are heading into a disaster and the leadership on both sides is inadequate. This is a very angering state of affairs.

I realize that this is an impure realm. Bernie Sanders is far from perfect but I'm willing to accept him. Biden on the other hand, that is a pill that cannot be swallowed. I understand that not everyone's ideology matches my own. Thing is, the policies that I am in favor of, Med4All, a living wage, debt relief, ending the drug war, ending foreign wars... are all very popular. Popular enough that, in a fair system, the leader who has been fighting for them wouldn't be swept aside so easily.

Scary times indeed. As this pandemic intensifies, the trail will become scarier. I don't want revolution either but if the powers that be don't do what's necessary to alleviate the hardships that we will soon be facing... well who knows what will happen.

@RoboGraham “What triggers me is your avoidance to engage.” ...and.. I’ll stop right there. You’re looking to ‘engage,’ I’m not. Any difference in view is likely that simple. I can ignore the bursts of anger exhibited by many, but am unwilling and incapable of removing it. If badgering me is your method of creating a platform to continue bashing the Democratic Party’s nominee for President ..no thanks ~

@Varn

Well you chose to engage me when you accused me of campaigning for Trump. That was an absurd thing to say. You said I made a false equivalence. I didn't. I am attempting to have a debate. I explain my point of view. You dismiss me as Russian. Rather than engaging in this debate we are having, you just say I'm angry and ranting and dismiss everything I have to say rather than attempting to refute it in a logical way. I attempt to get you to engage and explain to me your reasoning for supporting Biden. I ask many times, You refuse. It is frustrating.

If that's how you choose to interact, there is no point. But know this, when you dismiss people like this, they dismiss you as well, and the party that you are arguing in favor of. In November when you are wondering why we democrats have again lost to the orange idiot, think back to this conversation. If the party has no interest in understanding the frustrations of of disappointed members, those members will abandon it.

Narcissists are also known for pitting their children against each other. So this ..obsessive show of affection may be his reward for her out-preforming the others..

There are none so blind.... If you wish to defend trump through his upbringing, please make your own post so people who care about that can interact with you. If you cannot address my post, why waste our time with utterly incredible nonsense?

@Varn Pedophiles also pit their children against each other (so we cannot compare stories).

@EllenDale Pedophiles are a profile I’ve not looked into. Cluster B’s … they’re everywhere, especially my life Got a friend who was a sex offender parole officer. Damn, some shit he’s described was ..death worthy.

@Varn Yes. I agree.

@Varn I think you hit it on the nose here. Look how he treats Tiffany in comparison to his golden child.

Are we the only ones who recognize inappropriate behavior in a family? I pity the children of those who are silent.

None yet. Too bad. I have tried to find a supporter who can argue using sources (other than trump). Not. One. Response. What does that tell us?

I am utterly amazed and disgusted by people who look the other way. Having been raised by a telescope-peeping Tom, having my body compared to my older sisters’ from 10 on, and being a victim of inappropriate hugging, kissing, wrestling, and more, we are supersensitive to people who cross the line. I truly do not understand how people can see the pictures, hear and see him say inappropriate things about his daughter, and deny reality.

@EllenDale Not looking the other way here ..just too sickened to open any of those.. Can’t say I noticed that behavior among the Dad’s I knew - then, those I knew were positively involved and shown only healthy support for their daughters.

I’m sorry all good dads can do is shun those we’d find behaving like trump. Sickening and creepy, what more can be done? I know ‘our place in the woods’ often became a haven of sorts for my daughters friends, several becoming like members of our family … while no doubt dodging anything imaginable ‘back home.’ Always felt proud to have had their trust, and could never betray it.

Too, what girl feels comfortable describing such treatment to some parent-aged adult? What’s weird with ..what’s her name above.. is how she seems to appreciate it. He remains a wanted poster for fucked up. And I’m sorry for what you experienced. Damn. Good luck finding ‘his supporters,’ hiding behind their screen names..

@Varn I certainly didn’t mean you about looking the other way. Pedophiles groom their victims. Perhaps he never did more than make her feel creepy. Maybe she likes the wealth. As they say, if you think incest is a ugly word, imagine how it feels.

@powder Recovering from a Borderline experience, by necessity, I learned of the Cluster B disorders, Narcissism being one. Soon thereafter, had a personal and jarring experience with a Narc, so delve into some further research on that ... for fear of not spotting these people..

While researching, one ‘expert’ was actually ‘warning the nation’ of trump’s narcissism, describing how (prior to the 2016 election) mental health experts were already using him as their best example of a Narc to students… Did the nation listen, care, or understand..?

Yes, watching him confirms so much.. It’s why he’s avoided press conferences … and has communicated from ‘on high’ via tweets. Now, with these daily ‘corona press conferences,’ he’s falling apart, while behaving as you’ve described.. And to think we’ve people willing to let him continue

Honestly, I couldn’t look..

. I’m waiting...

I’m repeating and showing trump. Not my words or thoughts at all. It’s all proven in his television and radio appearances. Don’t kill the messenger if the message is about illegal behavior.

@EllenDale
It has not been established. There are guesses, accusations and a lot of rumor mill by the haters.Therefore, is it right to spread what we do not have a proof of especially when we are talking about a father and daughter? Let them be any other people. There is some sanctity to mother-child, father-child relationships. If the guilt is proven, punish him and talk all you want but repeating social media crap that yourself do not know if true, is wrong. Being a messenger of hurtful and untrue (since not proven) news means being wrong.

@St-Sinner It is on record, video and audio. I know he puts his hands on his daughter in very inappropriate ways in public, in pictures. I listened to him when he was on Howard Stern and he said he went into the adult and teenage dressing rooms “because I own it.” I know he said Ivanka was “a piece of ass” on Stern’s show. This is why I didn’t and would never vote for him. I believe my own eyes and ears, not a serial liar. You might try researching this yourself. Most people need help knowing how to discern a credible source. Ask and I will enlighten.