Agnostic.com

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How do you feel about people who just want to put people down, whether it's in opinions or discussions? I have seen an increase in the number of people who are insulting our fellow users.

I have had a number of people say very inappropriate things to me, or I have read them on other posts. And a few people who have talked to me about how they are feeling under attack here.

I feel that the number of people who are abusive or outright rude has increased as the site has grown, and I am becoming less interested in discussions. I feel connected to the idea of this site so would like it to succeed. There are good people here, but some of us are feeling like we are getting drowned out.

What do you think we can do as a group to make this site better?

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  • 12 votes
Akfishlady 8 Apr 5
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62 comments

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13

My thoughts as well. It’s okay to not agree, it’s not nessecary that we all think exactly the same. But it would be nice if people wouldn’t be rude or cruel. There are discussions I’m not okay about, I just stay the hell out of them.

@Akfishlady yeah, like the good advise of Facebook memes says. "It’s not necessary to attend every argument you’re invited too" ?

12

In the past, when I was a moderator of another board (for gifted adults), we had our share of difficult people (most of them just trying to grandstand). I would try to mediate and come to some mutual understanding. I could often see some validity in both points of view. That being said, when emotions were triggered, I could see how some offended parties just wouldn't ignore the troublemakers and stop engaging with them, but would deliberately poke the bear back and rational discourse would fall by the wayside as tempers flared.

I've seen other members protectively pile on a newcomer who was simply a little bit more provocative. That also gets ugly.

Each of us has to decide for ourselves how much to engage and how to deal with conflict. It's not always possible or even advisable to avoid an opposing view. Sometimes hearing something you don't want to hear makes you feel uncomfortable and vulnerable, but that doesn't mean it's bad. Lots of times it just means something has come up in you that is worth a deeper look to find out why it did elicit an emotional reaction. And then the potential for growth can happen.

But if anyone is routinely mean-spirited or being gross, my vote is for blocking them. These days, I have precious few hours outside of work and I don't need to deal with someone who can't play nice in the sandbox. However, I also don't expect or need someone else to completely police other people on my behalf, I can do that myself.

Thank you for your valuable insight.

^^This

12

I won't say anything here that I won't say to you in person. It's easy to hide behind a monitor and be a dick.

All the more reason for calling a spade a spade and being allowed to make your opinion.

That's exactly what goes through my head sometimes -- precisely.

"If you were to meet her at a barbecue, Bill, would you really say exactly this in exactly the same way?"

Same.

9

In theory, we all have something in common here on this site. It doesn't mean we all share the same experiences. People who have been treated badly in the past sometimes act out. Not to say there is an excuse for bad behavior, but perhaps this community can respond to a teachable moment and help someone grow beyond past experience?

jeffy Level 7 Apr 5, 2018

I have no responsibility to those who discount others experiences and rights. I will cheerfully put them down but I am tired of explaining myself ri them and I shouldn't have to. Carrying aroumd enough of a burden putting up with their shit.

Quite frankly you sound like the republicans telling us we should just be nicer to the bullies and maybe they won't shoot us.

@Blindbird Stop calling me frankly, I'm jeffy! I wasn't making any choices for you. I was speaking to those with the patience and understanding to be creative enough to get someone who is being obtuse to reflect on what effect that has on them. If they can't figure that out, fuckem.

@Akfishlady
Totally #PervyTroll. I tried GENTLY asking for mutual respect to no avail. He kept pressing his slimey agenda. ?
Ew, no i have to bathe again!

9

Yes, I've noticed on here that there are some very intolerant people who are not shy about expressing their thoughts in a hostile and rude manner. I actually blocked one member who was quite abusive on a thread--and then followed me around to other threads, trying to continue the "discussion".

I don't think personal insults and mocking someone's beliefs are conducive to a meaningful exchange of ideas. Quite the opposite, in fact.

On the other hand, I just had a very interesting and pleasant discussion with someone who was polite and rational throughout. It was quite refreshing.

marga Level 7 Apr 5, 2018

If they follow you excessively flag and report them I would say .. that is pretty unacceptable to be honest in my view at least.

9

Not seen many posts where people are being outright nasty , seen a few posts where people are complaining about others being rude though . The last person I noticed doing this every other post he did was him complaining about others being rude/trolls or abusive , when someone complains that much I tend to think it's not others but them . When I pointed this out to him he blocked me so really did prove to me he was a snowflake and didn't know how to debate properly .

Probably the same guy who blocked me. ; ) He can dish it but can't take it.

@Akfishlady yeah calling someone names is rude but like I said I haven't seen touch of it on here so far

Snowflake? What do you mean when you call someone a snowflake?

@marga someone who takes offence to everything , needs safe places , needs warning about sensitive subjects etc

@SimonMorgan1 I don't know, I might take that as an insult...it is name-calling, at the very least.

This might be a good example of how one person sees nothing wrong with labeling another person, and how that second person might really feel about it. 🙂

@marga yeah but I wasn't referring to you or anyone here . But if you do want to take offence then if the cap fits .........

@SimonMorgan1 Wow, no, no, lol. I'm just pointing out something that I thought was pertinent to this thread. Sorry that you saw it differently--but again, that lends credence to what I was saying, doesn't it? 🙂

I think he blocked me too. Doesn't bother me in the slightest to get blocked for normal, even if dissenting, discussion.

@BlueWave but he doesn't even discuss anything just gets offended the blocks . To me he's making this site to be something it's not . Loads of people have disagreed with me on here but doesn't mean they are being offensive

@SimonMorgan1 Right. I agree. Put another way, if I disagree with you and am attempting to have a discussion (albeit with a dissenting opinion) and you block me, well then good riddance. I was blocked right away also.

@Akfishlady
In my "governator" voice when he did Kindergarten Cop
... You're Not A Dipsh!t...
?

9

I have this theory that people try to improve themselves or at least make them themselves feel better about themselves, they do this in either one of two waysThe first is study/enlightenment/self improvement which let's be honest is bloody hard work,The second, which I think a lot (if not the majority of people do-hence tribalism, nationalism etc.) is to put others down the simple I am better than you mentality which reults in Racisim, sexism and all the more ugly human characteristics. I'm pretty sure this applies when it comes to agnostic/athest/theist beliefs-"I am betterthan you because I believe"-"No your just a sheep", so it's logical to assume some comments on here can get heated and depending on how thick skinned or sensitive or confident you are in dealing with such comments will result in how you react.Some peoles views are entrenched and will not change-that's how wars start!I'm all for free speech but you can't debate with a fanatic, acouple of people should moderate and if there appears to be a repeat offender then they should be given a chance to use less offensive language,it's tricky as what's offence to one person isn't to another but if you can demonstrate to a person why others may find it offensive some people can moderate their language, those that can't well three strikes then your banned temporarily, then finally has a long historical(although I am not suggesting it is correct)precedent.

stu8 Level 4 Apr 5, 2018
8

I don't mind disagreement. In fact, if done respectfully it can be constructive. I've had people point out flaws in my comments, and found them to be correct, at least having valid points, and it has helped me in my own thinking.

But outright attacking and name-calling are totally out of line, in my opinion, and I will personally not tolerate it, not against myself or others. When I see that, or someone making idiotic defenses/assertions of what I consider foolish ideas, or ideals, the attacker gets blocked, period. I'm not going to argue, not going to try to help them "see the light"; that, to me is a waste of my precious time.

People attacking others are too myopic and self-serving to be bothered with. They are typically powerless individuals with oversized egos whose self-importance gets in the way of their humanity, compassion, and humility; and at some point in their miserable (likely self-loathing) existence, they will hopefully learn that kindness and understanding are their own rewards; but I'm afraid I am not a sufficiently persuasive person to impress that upon them. Perhaps they'll learn it in their own time, perhaps not.

@Akfishlady, precisely.

sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never harm me !

8

The last time I initiated a discussion, I was accused of being racist by a few people who didn't understand my post and don't know anything about me. I don't know if the misunderstanding was my fault or theirs. If I didn't communicate clearly, a lot of people did understand, and accusations started flying without one person asking for clarification. So I think that some people just want to take offense.

It's a matter of personal preference how you want to deal with people who rub you the wrong way, and if they're a legitimate detractor from the site, that's up to the admin (s).

I would prefer, after my last experience, that people who want to make accusations without trying to clarify the point just block me.

JimG Level 8 Apr 5, 2018

Jim, I think your point about people looking for offense, and misunderstanding others, is probably at the core of most attacks. It is completely unwarranted, and disingenuous to rip into someone, anyone, after catching only a virtually miniscule glance of who they are on a random forum.

Understandable. I did experience a small "lost in translation " misunderstanding, but we worked together nicely & worked it out. This site is very pleasing & stimulating because of the people.

@Emme I'm glad you dealt with someone who was more reasonable. 🙂

@Akfishlady Wow, I guess I better not discuss the traits I'm not attracted to then, but FWIW, I am 5'10" does that meet your requirements or should I be worried that you'll exterminate me?

😛

8

Ad Hominem is the arena of a person with no arguement.
That said, Hard to make any blanket statement about such things as I see them as a case by case situation.

This is a site called Agnostic.com, and as such you will find people who uuse and define Agnostic very differently.
You can (and do) have Agnostic Christians and Agnostic Atheists, as Agnosticism addresses a question of Knowledge and Theism one of belief.
I am a Skeptical Ignostic and I have noted a lot of people with diverse beliefs about spiritual matters on the site.

Now if someone presents me with some claim, which to them, inside their bubble makes perfect sense; yet to me is utter bollocks, is it ethical for me to ignore that?
I do not think it is. I do no think it is ethical for me to allow my fellow human to labor under some false understanding or assumption if it seems to me that is the case. I feel obligated as a person to try and get them to see that their brain might be fooling them, or show how that works, because our brains do that to us all.

One Step further, is that comfortable?
Might it seem rude?
Might it seem rude or disrespectful even if I attempt to present it in as respectful a manner as possible simply because it touts against the belief the other person has inside their bubble?

The other day here ran into a thread where a woman claimed she had lost time, that she had traveled hours in minutes. Not once or twice, but repeatedly over several years, until she bought a new car. That a four hour drive was taking 20 minutes.

I confronted her on this as politely as I could. Told her she would be breaking land speed records.
Nope, she was teleporting.
THAT made more sense to her, that she had found a wormhole in time she could not find anymore, than that she and others were mistaken, or made an error in time, had a broke clock and so on.

When I told her that was just as fantastic a claim as religion, as walking on water and raising the dead, she is teleporting like Nightcrawler or found a land bermuda triangle no one else ever did :THEN she got angry at me and wanted to leave the site, she did not feel welcome because her fantastic claim of teleportation was not believed outright with no evidence.

I asked her why would you make such a fantastic claim in a public venue and not expect someone to call you on such a claim?

Group Mods work, but create authoritarin online societies.
It is easier for people to just block those who they feel offended by
BUT that leaves humans isolated in the bubble they inhabit, something social media already strives to do by collecting people of like minds (Agnostics).

I do not want people to feel pushed out or shouted down, nor to I want the site to become a propaganda arm for the Woo express.

MAYBE we should try being civilized adults?

Most people are civilized adults but there are a few on here that will just attack for no other reason than to piss people off. They aren’t looking to discuss, they are just being outright malicious.

@Marcie1974 That strikes me as odd in a general way, like sharks biting air for no reason.
Surely there must be some reason, which we are obviously NOT getting or grasping or conveying, which is driving it right?

Perhaps the topic is somehow pushing their buttons?Is there some common thread in the posts with these reactions?
Are they all on one topic or another, and it is the topic which is the issue?

@Davesnothere here’s a for instance. Someone posted the question “Do you think it’s easier for women to come out as bisexual?” A well known antagonist on here went on a rant about how our society is favored towards women and men have to work harder to get the same respect as women, etc. I called him out on it stating statics about pay inequality, that women are far more likely to get raped, etc. He essentially eluded that women shouldn’t be working and that’s been the downfall our our society.

@Marcie1974 Well that is a rather ill informed and willfully blind opinion, bourne right out of the bible.
I smell a troll . . .

On the other side of that, I suppose it is possible that some man could be so disposed due to life circumstance, like lost his Job to a woman or one was promoted over him, wife left him and demands alimony and so forth so that he FEELS like women have some upper hand in society.
A quick look at the roster of corporate America and the Halls of Congress should correct that
It is still the "White Old Mans club"
And that does not touch the horrid 1 in 3 odds of rape in a lifetime, which is why I think all women should learn self defense. It would be nice if all men did not rape, but short of that I would like all women to be able to defend themselves.

@Davesnothere I found out he’s a troll. Which made me feel better and that I’m not just a sensitive snowflake (although I’m admittedly sensitive).

@Marcie1974 I don't blame women for being sensitive to such issues, that is simple awareness.
IF your so sensitive it negativly impacts your life day to day that is something you would have to look at and gage yourself, but to be aware and call attention to it?
How else will people chamge it?

8

I have overtly challenged people's ideas on here as they aren't in the spirit of the forum and I'm not ashamed of that. I would only do it in open discussion, not in private messages. Blocking people that offend you is surely the best way to avoid it, but it risks creating little echo chambers within the site.

Keep your friends close but your enemies closer?

Er. So?! There's a lot of stuff I'm forced to listen to in my daily life that I don't need or care to put up with here. Why on earth do people act as though anyone has to give every stupid idea/person any time at all in the name of "not building an echo chamber". Fuck that noise.

@Blindbird Right? If I want noise, I can go to FB.

Good point-echo chambers.

8

I have had a couple but they were only trolls, not permanent members, they went away very quickly. Not sure if they were kicked out or went of their own accord. I just checked and they have not been active since. We are all different, we will all have different opinions, I think it is fine to differ, state our case, answer any questions but not continually argue our points, ie try and badger people to concede.

7

I just don't care. If they choose to be a rude asshole, it's their business. I have no idea why they do it. Maybe they are weak, and it makes them feel tough, maybe they are insecure and so they attack first, maybe they are narcissitic bullies who get a boner when they are assholes. Maybe they have sycophants who they want to impress so they can be more adored. Whatever it is, there is no excuse for it. Other weak, insecure, narcissistic bullies may be impressed by it, but I'm not, and most normal people aren't either. If that is what it takes to give meaning to their pathetic little lives, so be it.

7
  • Don't take personally
  • Ignore
  • Consider equanimously, as appropriate
  • Clarify respectfully, as appropriate
  • Take ownership, if necessary
  • Report
  • Offer support to the aggrieved, in cases of abuse
  • Block

I have never blocked.
I have reported once or twice.
I have never felt personally attacked--although my ideas/arguments have, on several occasions, been rudely savaged.

I have seen next to nothing of the personal attacks and insults you describe (which is not to say they're not happening; I just haven't seen them).

I have seen many instances of people claiming "attack" and invoking "free speech" and whatnot when presented with perfectly acceptable (i.e. not rude) counterarguments, refutations, or calls for substantiation.

If and when I see inappropriate behavior, I will not hesitate to report it.
I will not reward the bad behavior of bad actors by giving them attention for it.

My threshold for naming (online, verbal) behavior "inappropriate" or "abusive" is pretty high, I gather, compared to many others. That's fine. Nobody's gotta do like me.

As for calling out "rudeness", well...I'm no one's momma. If a grown-up wants to go about life treating people that way, they can reap what they sow. If that means others call them out, or block, or retaliate, that's fine. What they reap from me is getting ignored. I'm fine with it.

@Akfishlady I'm no psychologist, so I won't argue that I'm right about this, but: I firmly believe that the best way to handle intentionally hurtful people on a platform like this is to give them exactly zero attention--which means blocking if you can't stop yourself from reacting to them, and/or reporting if the behavior is egregious. And, understanding that they are unavoidable: there will always be some in the mix. (I say this as someone who has been catnip for bullies my whole life. They do it because there's a payoff. Don't bankroll them.)

@stinkeye_a Very much agree.

@Akfishlady where do you see this happening ? . I've seen absolutely nothing and I've been on the site pretty solidly for 3 months

7

I have commented on posts, voicing my opinion on the topic, without personal attack or name calling because, its about a topic, stick to facts & in cases where i speak to my own experience, I reference exactly that. Some topics are hot button issues &, in my opinion its takes on an imperative to maintain focus on the topic & choose words carefully, while still making the point, which does not includes throwing personal shade at the OP. (Edited because I left out 2 words...)

That said, in responding to hot topic posts, the OP may have emotional investment in the topic or, because of being attacked by others, may feel all responses that are not lock step with their idea constitutes a personal attack. In those case i review my response because I have a type of dyslexia which skews my comprehension of written word (edit above & below) & I can inadvertantly leave things out even after reviewing multi times before posting. If i wasn't clear, i apologize & offer clarity. If I was clear & what i've written is misconstrued, experience has taught me to keep it moving, no response other than "you're right" will be good enough to the OP & i have too much real life stuff going on to concern myself with "overly butt hurt random internet fuck # 239".

7

I've had this problem on other social media as well.
I'm WAY more active on this site than I have ever been on any other. I like to think that this site is populated with critical thinkers and not attention-seeking drama-kings/queens.
Truth seems to be, the larger the group becomes, the more 'drama' and attacks will occur.

On Facebook (not that it's perfect, but it is a pioneer) there's the ability to have private groups, where only invited people can join, or random people need approval to be allowed to join. This works rather well, but...
If we take this stance and only belong to groups that agree with our own opinions, we don't grow, we don't expand, we don't learn and we run the risk of isolating ourselves from the 'bigger picture'.

I'm still all for the private groups, but I try to keep the 'bigger picture' in mind too.

But, there is a vast difference between civil disagreement, or constructive criticism, and ad hominem attacks and outright meanness, correct? Much of it is ego driven, by insecure people; typical bullying.

@Condor5 TOTALLY AGREE!!!! 100% (i had to look up "ad hominem" )

By a private group we will hopefully eliminate the crazy meanies, but in the process might end up also eliminating the nice folks who simply have another opinion.

That's all I meant.

@scurry, of course. Differences of opinion, when expressed respectfully and thoughtfully, can be valuable and helpful. My opinion is worth no more, but no less, either, than anyone else's. Opinions should be unassailable, as long as they are presented as just that, an opinion. Giving weight to an opinion that is expressed as such without verifiable evidence (historical, scientific, or otherwise), or attacking it are equally useless.

@Condor5 For sure - I agree!! I'm not arguing.
I point, worry, concern, is that by eliminating the unwanted, that we may inadvertently also eliminate some we wished to 'keep'.

@scurry, quite possibly.

7

Hitler was appeased over and over again. Action is the only thing that will "cure" the problem. If it happens to you and others you know, band together and complain to @Admin.

7

I usually just tell them exactly what I think of their assessments. Then they usually block me, so I don't see their posts anymore. Since joining, there is still only one person on my blocked list.

7

I try to be pleasant and should they persist I block them. The thing I wonder about is this is at least to a point a dating site, so, what do they have to gain by being a dick?

I know 1 guy on here that just seems to like to piss people off. He’ll deliberately say antagonistic things and will not engage in a productive discussion but will Attack and argue.

@Marcie1974 at least one.

I wonder the same thing! Many times I think to myself "Well, I sure wouldn't consider dating this one even if there is no other option" based on some comments, snark, rudeness, etc.

I also think sometimes people are trying (too hard) to be funny, and instead they just come off as a jerk.

7

Call them out on it. On top of that, I think, all that sees the abuse need to do the same.

The sheeple syndrome or as Tolstoy put it " the person who never lifts their head above the parapet". However we recently had a case of a radio announcer who called the female Prime Minister a lyer. 100000 took up the scream that he should not have said it and their screams cost him valuable monetary endorsements. If asked quietly and individually however each of those 100000 would have admitted that a. Politicians lie b. She was a politician c. He was only iterating sound reason compared to their emotive screaming. It has been proven through research that there are very few people who will not conform to peer pressure to accept the group expression even if it is saying that black is white - an opinion that seems to be frequently believed here with regard to Obama and Mrs Clinton.

I agree. I believe that if everybody "had each other's backs" when it happened, the person doing the insulting or the ruding would not feel quite as emboldened.

(Yes, I know that's not a real word.) 🙂

7

I've only just joined and haven't seen any overt rudeness but some general undiplomatic douchbaggery (...in my opinion) 😀

Sadly the anonymity of the internet seems to make some people think that they can say whatever they like with impunity.

When there are tools to flag inappropriate behaviour, I think it is a good solution when someone is out of line - then it is up to moderators to review and decide how to move forward. If they are repeat offenders, moderators become aware of it and the person should eventually be blocked. If it was a once off bad taste comment, or just something that offended you, then the moderator can leave them be or let them know they're on thin ice.

If you feel able to call them on it, thats also an option but sometimes it can lead to ongoing bickering. At least with a moderator they are just doing their job and the person shouldn't be made aware who's flagged them.

Since it is the internet and I am not likely to meet most of these people I tend to block. I do not want to bicker on line,

@btroje Yep - blocking is sometimes necessary but there is a part of me that likes to keep an eye on how arseholes think/behave. I've got a few people on facebook that I haven't unfriended because they help to shatter my information bubble. It is easy to become complacent if we only interact people who think like I do.

I work in a profession dealing with difficult people. I don t come here to seek that out. My concerns in this thread are less about opinions and more just about personal attacks. Even if you block someone there are still ways to see ther opinions and I do sometimes continue to observe their opinions, I just don't want to interact with them

7

I've been here 3 days:
Had one misunderstanding (worked it out together) ?
Had one pervy troll (blocked)?
EVERYONE other than pervy troll has been AWESOME❣??
I like it here. No need to let dark energy infiltrate all the good stuff we have going on here❣?

Emme Level 7 Apr 5, 2018

My new band: Pervy Trolls.

@phil21
We should coin that. #PervyTrolls
That IS funny ... now. But really, after it happened, I just wanted to bathe & wash the SLEEEEZE off, like with a firehose or pressure wash followed by an adequate DeLousing (flea bath & a mange dip)! Shiver/Hhuzzzz ?

@Emme I think you've written our first hit!

@Akfishlady Should be an all girl group? Of course all your concerts would be full of REAL Pervy Trolls.

just want to bathe & wash the SLEEEEZE
off, like with a firehose or pressure washer, Pleeeeeze
Add an adequate DeLouse (in background -- Shiver/Hhuzzzz)
with a bath and a dip to get rid of Fleeeeze!

@Akfishlady
I'm kinda animated?

@phil21
Eew! Firehouse standing by...aimed at them ?

@phil21
???
My tummy hurts from laughing❣
???
It rocks?

@Emme You'll have to write the music. I'm strictly a lyricist. Enjoy your day.

6

I’ve noticed what I’d consider very few attacks.. Unlike some battlezones I’ve experienced elsewhere online 🙂 Folks here seem very respectful, sincere and tolerant… I’ve attributed that to ‘us’ having existed as a minority in a hostile world, thus learning to ..keep our mouths shut a little better/ longer than most..

If someone does appear to strike out in some manner, which hopefully I’m not too guilty of, I’ll attribute that to them feeling personally offended, and do my best to respect that. What bugs me are the passive-aggressive comments ..often ending with ‘in their humble opinion.’ ...but who likes passive-aggressive? 🙂

...I’ve also noticed the ‘worst offenders’ totally disappear … leaving me to wonder ..is there a god 😉

Varn Level 8 Apr 5, 2018

@Akfishlady I agree. I hate it when I express a personal opinion and am challenged to back it up...it's my opinion, and I don't need to defend it to anyone.

@Akfishlady, me three. I use the phrase specifically for that purpose, that I am not going to argue, or feel compelled to defend my opinion to some random Yahoo who has no more interest in constructive dialogue that Donald Trump has in being POTUS. (IMHO)

@Akfishlady I try not to open my mouth & let poo fall out. It's relatively easy to just find a source to back up claims or statements.

6

I've yet to have a personal attack. If I did, I'd bite back. Otherwise, I just scroll on by, and go about my business.

I believe their attacks are generated from insecurities inside themselves.

@Akfishlady I imagine if you asked some why they're doing it - they might not know themselves ! Humans can be mighty strange ...

6

Report them to the site.. I think they do a pretty good job getting rid of the trolls...

I think so, too, @Buddha. This is the most responsive site I've been on (and thank you for that, @Admin!).

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