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To many folks on here faith is a dirty word. It has no place for rational folks who make choices based on evidence. We don’t want to admit that we don’t know something which acknowledging faith implies. The truth is that no one really knows. My journey to atheism has helped me realize that atheism requires faith. After all, the evidence has to be interpreted and is subject to human bias. If we’re honest, we simply can’t say that we know god doesn’t exist. I agree with many, if not most of you on here, that the evidence suggests that there is no god. But, again, that’s subject to our human frailties no matter how smart we are. I have faith in science, that it will continue to be proven wrong and expand human knowledge, but as a skeptic I will not only question the claims of religion et. al, but the claims of science and my own understanding of everything.

T-mule138 3 Apr 5
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19 comments

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0

Seen many Bigfoot lately? 🙂

0

Faith is for what you do not understand and have no verifiable facts. I can't really think of anything that I need faith for. I don't need faith in science. Science is not about faith but rather facts and evidence. You don't need faith if you have truth. I don't need faith that there is no god. That's ridiculous. That's like saying that you don't need faith that unicorns, dragons, and leprechauns aren't real. I don't need faith to not believe in nonsense. Knowledge trumps faith ever single time. If you don't have knowledge, then go get some, because faith is essentially believing whatever you want to believe based on what feels good to you.

0

I have faith in my firm belief that the bible and koran and all that nonsense is stupid AF.

2

There is so much wrong with how this is worded, that I struggle to know where to start. As I understand the word, 'Faith' is an emotional response of belief in something where one has no evidence to support that belief.

"We don’t want to admit that we don’t know something which acknowledging faith implies." I have no idea what you are trying to say here. It doesn't take faith to not know or understand something - it just takes a lack of knowledge or understanding.

"My journey to atheism has helped me realize that atheism requires faith." I think we must have a different definition of faith.

"After all, the evidence has to be interpreted and is subject to human bias." Yes it does.But using the scientific method of testing and predicting, we can evaluate that evidence and work to a level of resasonable expectation. Some areas of study are open to interpretation of cuase/effect.

"If we’re honest, we simply can’t say that we know god doesn’t exist." I agree. As an atheist I have never said that a god/s cannot exist in some form in some universe. However, I have yet to find a definition of god that is either consistent or could exist in its defined form. It is the duty of those claiming that something exists to back up,their claim. If you tell me you have an invisible unicorn in a box in your basement, it is not my job to prove that you do not. Just showing me a box is not sufficient evidence.

"I agree with many, if not most of you on here, that the evidence suggests that there is no god." I disagree - there is a lack of evidence to show that there is a god. There is ample evidence to show that religious claims are wrong, but there is little evidence to prove that a god/s cannot exist in some form in some universe - a consistent definition might help here.

"I have faith in science" I don't. I have a reasonable expectation that the scientific method has, so far, proven to be the best method we have to explain the world around us.There is an array of observed facts and numerous hyptheses on how these facts can be explained. As we learn more about stuff, our understanding changes and we modify our hypotheses and update our science books.

"...as a skeptic I will not only question the claims of religion et. al, but the claims of science and my own understanding of everything." I agree wholeheartedly. So I kind of think that much of the above is another case of separated by a common language.

0

I hate faith. My atheism is based on my unprovable belief that there is no god. We can prove that all gods worshipped thus far can be disproven, and no doubt any future ones. My unprovable belief of course is faith. I hate that.

0

Kudos for Epistemological humility

2

Yeah. There's no faith involved in atheism. There is absolutely no evidence of any kind of
Creator being, much less the Xtian concept of god. I very simply don't believe shit there's no evidence for.

8

This is one of my favorite quotes.

“… Science is constantly proved all the time. You see, if we take something like any fiction, any holy book… and destroyed it, in a thousand years’ time, that wouldn’t come back just as it was. Whereas if we took every science book, and every fact, and destroyed them all, in a thousand years they’d all be back, because all the same tests would [produce] the same result.”
― Ricky Gervais

Betty Level 8 Apr 5, 2018
2

Pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps in philosophy is different from religious faith.

6

Thats because you cannot debate faith it lacks facts and evidence.

3

Gosh I understand your point, but my athieism is independent of my spiritual stance. I never struggle or have to fight off the urge to want chruch or god. But my wanting to understand the flow , the ebb and tide of life, I must engage my spritual side for that comfort.
I do believe we KNOW the truth , God, if it is so, has no religion, It was here before religion was written by humans, and the same god that created all remains the same one after religion was invented. So NO there is no god. Positive,

EMC2 Level 8 Apr 5, 2018
4

Faith in each other is all we really need.

9it really feels lonely when you are the only one who steps forward.

But you lack proof,and facts everyone else will act.

4

I have no proof god exists or doesn't exist. But it's awfully interesting that the universe works exactly as predicted under the lack of a deity. If there is a deity, it cannot be infallible, omnipotent, and omnipresent as the Western religions like to claim.

There is a distinct lack of miracles for children with cancer or Infantile Tay Sachs, for example. A merciful, loving god simply cannot be reconciled with the mere existence of such tragedies.

6

The thing about the god/no god question is that, sure, you can’t prove a negative, but you can discover why people are motivated to believe things without evidence and why they keep coming back to certain time honored myths. We really do know a lot about that now. We don’t know there’s no god but we do know quite a lot about why people need to think there is, and why they’re willing to defend that belief with their life sometimes. We also know what kinds of things consistently turn out to be true and what kinds of mental processes consistently lead to dead ends. There is more than enough known to lay that fantasy to rest confidently now, and get on with life.

skado Level 9 Apr 5, 2018

I think we return to the myths (not just the abrahamic ones) because we understand the world through narrative. As you say, there's a growing body of evidence for how and why this works. Neuroscience is now exploring our reaction to art.
Good storytellers, though, will still be able, perhaps more able, to persuade us of the truth of their position regardless of its factual veracity.

@RobAnybody Yes!

6

My definition of faith is "belief in something for which there is no evidence". Very different from the definition of faith as "hope". For this reason I disagree with you that atheism requires faith. You're right, nobody knows for sure. For now, I base my opinion on existing facts.

9

To many folks on here faith is a dirty word.

Only in it's theological context, as a simile for fidelity or trust I have no problems with it

It has no place for rational folks who make choices based on evidence.

Again only when speaking in a theological sense

We don’t want to admit that we don’t know something which acknowledging faith implies.

I'm sorry but that sentence makes no sense at all, I will gladly admit when I don't know something, but how can I not know something that acknowledging a belief that not knowing something but believing it anyway implies, other than my being a gullible idiot?

The truth is that no one really knows.

No one really knows what?

My journey to atheism has helped me realize that atheism requires faith.

WTF?????? This is a joke right?

After all, the evidence has to be interpreted and is subject to human bias.

What evidence for what? And how can facts and evidence be subject to interpretation, they are either facts or they are not, that is the definition of fact.

If we’re honest, we simply can’t say that we know god doesn’t exist.

*Obviously, only an idiot would say that, what we do know id that there is no evidence for the existence of God whatsoever, there the most local default position is to assume god does not exist until proven otherwise.

I agree with many, if not most of you on here, that the evidence suggests that there is no god.

*NO IT DOES NOT, the LACK of evidence suggests there are*** no god(s)

But, again, that’s subject to our human frailties no matter how smart we are.

*Oh for F*** sake!!!!

I have faith in science,

*NO YOU DON'T YOU HAVE EVIDENCE faith is belief without facts, why are you saying these things please?

that it will continue to be proven wrong and expand human knowledge, but as a skeptic I will not only question the claims of religion et. al,

et. al???? I give up

but the claims of science and my own understanding of everything.

*Okay seriously, I surrender

Wish I could like this multiple times.

@T-mule138 Fair enough, given that we accept you can redefine words to mean whatever you want them to mean, you post makes perfect sense now.

Polythene, urinary carbohydrate eggwhisk as you might say, I'm sure you understand.

You seem to have trouble with the word "faith". I get it and I agree that "faith" is belief without facts.

The word "faith" is so commonly used now that it is gaining a new definition in its use that is not connected with religion.

Eg. A child is kidnapped, the FBI is working on it. Do you have "trust" or "faith" that they will bring the child home unharmed? I suggest "faith" (belief without facts) would fit better than "trust" (earned through personal experience) that is not supported by facts.

There is a place for the word "faith" within conversations without a religious connotation. If you look at the original definitions of words like "mad", "cool", "wicked" "gay", and "race" they have evolved with new descriptors within their definitions. I think the words "faith" and "hope" are also evolving as new descriptors in their definitions.

@Betty
Faith when used as a noun meaning trust, or fidelity comes from the middle English word "fay" meaning a matter of trust, honour or confidence.

However Faith in the religious sense of accepting as true without good cause, is a proper noun and has a totally different root etymology and comes from bheidh a Proto-Indo-European root indicating a state of blind allegiance, adherence or utter loyalty, based on nothing but a choice to do so.

Time actually has done the opposite of what you suggest and merged two phononyms with a superficial similarity in to one word meaning both and leaving its use open to equivocation in theological and logical arguments.

"mad", "cool", "wicked" "gay", are not comparable since they are slang uses of existing words that have appropriated cultural and colloquial second ( or even third or fourth) meanings, though Race is comparable as it too has several meanings each with actual different root etymologies.

@LenHazell53

Thank you for the lesson.

4

You do you and I do me and strive to do/cause no harm. I have no problems with that and consider it the best way to live.

9

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs here. We are a diverse community.

True but
" everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but not to there own facts." Pat Moynihan

big fan Patrick Moynihan

8

I don't know many here who assert absolutely that God doesn't exist, but it is the most logical point of view being there is no evidence a God exists. I don't know how that takes any faith.

I definitely assert that absolutely no gods exist, nor have they ever existed. There is no credible, verifiable evidence of any god ever having existed anywhere. I feel completely confident in my assertion. There is no "there" there.

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