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Do you agree that if wasn't for the Dark Ages and religious prosecution, our civilization would so much more advanced today?
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Lukian 8 Apr 13
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17 comments

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Absolutely

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Yes I do I look at religion as another way to get you hard earned money. And do they help you when you need it. He'll yo the no

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Yes and no. Sometimes things have to go through a dark period in order for truth to come out. The Dark Ages lead to the Age of Enlightenment. But as humans we don't always learn the lessons, and wind up repeating things.

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Absolutely..that and the destruction of ancient libraries threw humanity damn near back to the Stone Age...Thanks Religion#!

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Yes, I agree!

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Or possibly the Roman Empire would have cottonned on to steam power (the Greeks already had the basics) and we'd be at the tail end of 1000 years of global warming. Which may well have been worse.
My take on it is that religion was needed to get through the dark ages. The fall of the Western Roman Empire was pretty grim. A lot of Europe starved when the grain stopped coming out of Egypt.

nice perspective on the global warming angle. I would tend to believe that we would have solve the issue way before it became a problem in a more reasoned based society. But, isn't the global warming denial today also more a political/religious issue? In other words, is science denial today still or mostly religiously motivated? Are there forces today to push humanity towards another Dark Age?

@Lukian There are always forces pushing us toward a dark age. Most of them are economic. It's notable that Le Goff attributes much of the blame for the fall of Rome to the concentration of wealth and the hollowing out of the middle class. Sounds disturbingly familiar.
In 700 CE Christianity was not a civilization changing organisation and the polytheists were too fragmented to have that sort of effect.
It was the dark ages that gave religion its power rather than the other way round.
Where religion may have a role this time is in that they've organised politically to support the system that concentrates wealth.

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I am on this site for a reason. I truly believe in the fight for equality for all religions. But. I do have a chip on my shoulder against Christianity. It’s been used for evil way beyond good. And if it wasn’t for the fear of the church I believe we’d be in alternate utopian world. It’s only ever held us back as a human society. Burning everyone that they don’t believe in. Stealing money from the poor usiong the fear of afterlife. Even In today’s world. The moment we can get more people to move forward and except everyone’s beliefs. Especially science. We will make even more leaps and bounds.

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Accurate predictions of "what ifs" is impossible.

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Definitely. There have been studies done, fewer advances made under religious persecution.

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The "Dark Ages" was a period that applies to Western Europe, the rest of the world was doing just fine once Rome and its influence melted away. The furhter east you went the better things got. China, India, the Middle East continued to develope and build on the knowledge of their ancestors.

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Naw, what's really holding us back is modern Xtianity. They don't want to explore creation any more.

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Who knows? Maybe we would have developed nuclear bombs a couple centuries ago and blown up the planet by now.

so war is probably a better innovator than lack of christianity

@Lukian ?

what other reason did we invent nuclear bombs if not during and for war?

@Lukian well, the original purpose was to stop the Japanese. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

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People, in general, are sheep and need to be led. In the event that more than a small fraction of the population were to smarten up the need to be led will always be there.

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The plague helped cause the demise of feudalism. As the lords died the serfs moved into/onto the unused real estate

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I recommend:
Lest Darkness Fall by L. Sprague de Camp and
Against the Fall Of Darkness by Arthur C. Clarke.

Truth to tell, it's been so long since I read them that I don't remember many details but I do remember enjoying the 'alternate history' concept very much.

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It's quite likely.

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