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"We keep on being told that religion, whatever its imperfections, at least instills morality. On every side, there is conclusive evidence that the contrary is the case and that faith causes people to be more mean, more selfish, and perhaps above all, more dumb."

― Christopher Hitchens

StellarAmor75 6 Jan 28

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Being brainwashed to be a Moron (oops, Mormon), I was taught, as a child, to listen to the church leaders and obey whatever they told me to do. It wasn't until I became an atheist that I learned what ethics are, and incorporated ethical standards into my life. πŸ™‚


As we evolve, so do our moral codes. We know that religions were created by human beings, as opposed to the interventions of an enlightened deity. We know this because no religion has ever been morally / ethically in advance of the people and ideas of the time. Consider for a moment just how many consecrated acts and commands found in so-called holy texts are now viewed as immoral.

To reiterate, we know that morals are evolved simply by observing empathy and reciprocity--two foundational principles of our morals--at work in the actions of other animals. When it comes to morality, religion loses yet another toe hold.


Funny as the Agnostic admin keeps deleting the last word of this quote as if we care to label believers as stupid.

Yeah well.... wouldn't be the first time

Hitch nailed it, as he so often did, and as a nullifidian (one without faith or religious belief), I completely agree. Religion is a not merely a home for the stupid, it is a stupidity producing machine. And as comedian Ron White noted, "You can't fix stupid."


Hitchens was/is correct. What he states about religion can also be applied to "woke" leftist Group Identity, which many profess in lieu of religion.


blind faith is completely condemned in the Bible, test everything, and keep what is good

Completely condemned? Not quite.
"For we walk by faith, not by sight." 2 Corinthians 5:7
"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1
"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

@p-nullifidian well, my reply to these is that "faith" might have a better definition, and fwiw Thomas was under direct orders from Jesus to not be following any claims of sightings of Jesus, if someone tells you "here He is, over here, don't go looking" paraphrased, so im pretty sure that the meaning of your Quote is obscured as well prolly; blessed are they who have not seen and yet believed what, exactly? Maybe not what we are led to think. Believers are all waiting for a literal appearance, right

@bbyrd009 That is not how the story goes in John 20:18-29. Read for yourself: []

In any case, I think it's fair to say that the Christian bible is rife with contradictions, including the value of faith, which, as a nullifidian, I define as believing something without evidence, or in opposition to existing evidence.

@p-nullifidian "That is not how the story goes in"
yes, i understand my quote came from elsewhere

"In any case, I think it's fair to say that the Christian bible is rife with contradictions, including the value of faith, which, as a nullifidian, I define as believing something without evidence, or in opposition to existing evidence."
not sure why you think the Bible declares any better faith, but i would ask you why you would likely have no problems flying commercial, even though you arent versed in airframe or LOX technology? something like that. Isnt that "faith?"

@bbyrd009 A common misuse of the word, IMHO. Placing confidence in an airline pilot, the aircraft and entire system of flight is not displaying "faith." It doesn't take faith to drive on the highways, either. And one doesn't need faith to make logical assumptions about things we have not witnessed. If I throw a rock into the ocean and lose sight of it, I don't need to have seen the splash to know that it has hit the water. Things work, we see the laws of physics in action, we have confidence that this will not change.

Faith, on the other hand, is claiming knowledge of things one cannot possibly know and believing in things without evidence, or in opposition to contrary evidence. As a nullifidian, I have no faith, including in faith itself.

@p-nullifidian well wadr you have defined the term for yourself, like a believer, which is your right, but that doesnt mean that the original author who used the term meant it that way.

@bbyrd009 Fair enough. But we need to make an important distinction. When one says they have faith in their pilot or surgeon, for instance, it is not the same thought process as religious faith.

@p-nullifidian i completely agree, and suggest that the Bible agrees too; it is the religious that are condemned in the Bible, and a Theocracy that imploded, after all, right

if you read the post below however, StellarAmor? that seems to be the standard reply (removed), which i can't help but take as denial? Dunno


Humans existed a long time before there was organized religion, let alone before the bible was written. They figured out morality in order to live in groups a very long time ago. Religion followed much later and hijacked the concept of morality.

i dunno about some of that, but i guess "priests" used to be the guys who knew how to make bronze, before the Bronze Age Collapse? Remember studying the BAC in high school? Yeh, me neither

@bbyrd009 Actually the 'metalsmiths' in those times were revered for their abilities to 'make' metals from what others saw as just 'ordinary' stones, just as were those before them who knew how work flint in to becoming axes, knives and the like.
They were by no means considered as being Priests, etc, however they WERE considered to be as important or even more important that the priests hence it came about that the 'priests' decided to' get in on the act' by making 'blessings' over and on the products made by the Metalmiths and stone-workers.


if ol Hitch wasnt so in love with himself he prolly woulda realized thats ezackly what the Bible says too lol

@StellarAmor75 ha, lotta ppl do i guess, but isnt the NT the record of the implosion of a religion? Arent those praised in the Bible the pagans/atheists? (roman centurion, good samaritan, etc) and fishermen yikes, don't get me started lol.

Yah hates religion, im pretty sure...even says as much-in code of course--@ Esau have i hated, which Esau was the guy who needed red stew or he would die, which it shouldnt be too hard to figure out what "red stew" is a stand-in for eh

the religionists are the losers in the Bible, like every time


Religion claims that it instills morality because they create their own definition of morality.

Want to have sex? That's immoral! Don't have sex! If you have sex and you are not married, we can abuse you because you deserve it.

Now the people who are inflicting verbal abuse, neglect, etc, are in the right and someone who did not hurt anyone at all is wrong.

hey, they can ignore judge not, lest you be judged and be hypocrites all they like, and see now how they have been revealed to you? Let the dead bury the dead imo πŸ™‚


Don’t know what the other xtians do, but Catholics are taught there is no accountability, all you need to do is confess and say a few hail marys...all is forgiven...

which wadr is pretty much the opposite of what the Bible teaches, ok
confess your sins, ONE TO ANOTHER
for ALL must come before the judgement seat (you, in this case; us) to be judged for their WORKS...

so, the point being that regardless of what the cult of sol teaches, they cannot Quote their own "source" for it, and will be judged to be hypocrites

@bbyrd009 judged by who? You sure know your Bible. Are you a closer theist?πŸ˜‰

@Canndue well, judged by "who"ever one identifies in "judgement seat" i guess; in this case we seem to be "in agreement" vis the RCC, right? Although i guess most ppl, believers, insist on putting that judgement in the future, there is no reason to that i can read. To our perspective, we have just judged them for their works, havent we

and i am not in the closet on my belief in some force that started things going; i just hesitate to define It. They used their vowels, YHWH, which for us is actually a transliteration, not a translation, which would be more like AEOU for an English ear i guess? Can you pronounce that?

may i suggest the possibility that we are led into religion in order to keep the truth hidden, and that *eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge" is something we all do pretty much, at least in the west, as opposed to eastern or "naive" thought, and that that stuff has nothing whatever to do with religion, religion is even condemned at every turn in the Bible?


Religious morality is only what they want it to be at the time they want it, and is subject to change without notice.


And we are now witnessing, first hand, their brand of 'morality.'


The most "Christian" like people I know are by and large non believers. They are good people because they choose to be not because of a fear of eternal damnation.


Believers are some of the most immoral people around.

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