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When do the American people get the answer to the questions Lt Gen Scheller asked? They can put a gag order on him, even jail him, but leadership still needs to be accountable to the American people. And what is the about face of Lt Gen Miley that is mentioned here, with regard to Afghanistan? It is problematic in my mind, to have no accountability on an issue that is his area of knowledge, his expertise, while Pres Biden has final say, we must have a thorough explanation otherwise it DOES appear there is a missing component. Given his break' of -chain -of -command communications wirh China under Trump, which I myself did NOT find problematic due to the nature of it, I will say lack of accountability HERE on THIS issue- it gives the impression of partisan allegiance which could also be interpreted as foreign allegiance, though I, wilk not make that final interpretation without further infornation. Explanatiins are certainly in lrder wirh regard to Afghanistan. Anything less is INEXCUSABLE.

Flowerwall 7 Sep 29
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Trump broke the chain of command by being mentally unfit.

I just created a response to another response on this thread on the issue of "mentally unfit". You don't get to make that claim because you don't agree with someone's actions. That is supterfuge. It was in response to the Gen. Miley issue that includes video below.

With regard to the initial question of accountability, I think it all falls back in some regards to the American people, mainly our systematic response, and the broader area of allies that assisted in operations. The UN? I think if everything had been well coordinated among nations, it was possible to retain a presence. But as to the American response, withdrawal became popular among the voters. Maintaing forces there, and the associated costs of that became too much and unneccasry in the public's mind. But should it then not become a question of "What does leaving Afghanistan mean exactly?" Clearly seeing what end results we could possibly be looking at and if those are truly acceptable or not. "Was oir withdrawal acceptable if it meant Taliban takeover?" I personally view the failure as being in the whole system. Not looking at the end very well before it began. This creates an absence of clear expectation. It certainly was not beneficial to Biden or the American psyche.Time will tell if the strategic loss of position will be a huge tactical error in anti-terrorism outside of Afghanustan.The bigger issue of the Afghanistan people themselves are there too. I can't imagine how the ppl there that worked to build a stronger nation are left to feel now. But we are all part of that process that did not go as most would have wanted. Hearing the idea that it was known the Afghanistan armed forces would fall, it leads to the question "Who knew?" "Are we all being duped by avoidance of the discussion of acceptable withdrawal outcomes?"

With Lt. Col Schellar he is rightfully frustrated at a failed process. The issue of the way this progressed, the loss, it is a VERY VALID QUESTION. He should not be facing harsh consequences for asking the Qs everyone wants answers to.How do any of us learn from this if the whole issue doesn't get pushed back on and questioned? Seeing someone in the service question this is exactly what ppl need in order to have that frustration validated. It is the American will to want to be on the side of good action and end outcomes that are beneficial.

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I remember another Marine LtCol who became very famous for conducting activities that were illegal. โ€œShred, Fawn, shred!โ€ ๐Ÿ˜‚

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I never expose myself to the poison of Fox "news". So it's bewildering that people bring it here. I'm trying to avoid viruses of all kinda.

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Ummmm, Fox "news".....no spin there, nosirreee

You can spin a top for a very long time, but when it stops it's STILL a top.

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Since its been 50 yrs or so that I was in the service, I might be wrong..but unless they've changed the uniform code of military justice, this lt. Col. Is linning himself up for a court martial by his actions. Is he right in his assertions?? I don't know, I'm not qualified, and neither is he. He just doesn't have the rank to have knowledge of the whole picture. And took it on himself to go public with his opinion. When I was there, they called that breaking ranks. That takes alot of juice, and he ain't got it

Do you mean the Lt. Col or the General? How would you differentiate breaking ranks here between the two mens actions? One posting on social media and the other is making private secret, phone callls to very important ppl, our competitors -another nation. Gen Milley needs to expound upon the value judgements he was making of Trump. Because unless he can CLEARLY explain things we cannot see, his own intention is highly suspect.

@Flowerwall you didn't see the hearings??

@HankSherman I did see some parts, very few. I think my opinion was completely changed from earlier when I wrote this post. Hopefully, I can write it out later.

@HankSherman Well here is Gen. Milley on the matter of the China call. I accept what he says here as being true. The question remaining in my mind is, why wasn't this then communicated to Trump? It's my understanding that all of this occurred, but then was not communicated to Trump. So given Mark Esper's advice. Gen Milley's phone call and Spkr. Pelosi's call it seems like all are acting in a manner that is circumventing the real authority, Pres Trump. It's like a coordinated effort, what Trump often refers to as "DeepState". I don't like the term being applied to Gen. Miley, I don't think it is a good term here, but coordinated supterfuge? (I'm not even sure if spterfuge is the perfect word here, or if it's more undermining authority.) Is this what was happening? They may have had a deep disliking for Trump, but it is not acceptable to try to create an independent arm of authority not under his control in this exact regard.

When we take into account the BROADER events of 2020, we can say that it was a time of increasing instability, and vunerability. I think everyone was looking to "fix things" in their way. But this type of undermining Pres. authority is very problematic. Even the social media companies were very guilty if it too. I know the social media may have also been operating from a good intention, but it is clear they were also a part of the undermining process. So to say Trump is completely off base with saying there is a coordinated plot against him is untrue.

@Flowerwall : if you see their actions as un-warranted, then I can't help you. Do you go along with the premise that the election was "stolen" from trump?

@HankSherman Do I go along with the premise that there was (is) a pandemic of not-fully-known origin that was a MAJOR disruption to the US election? YES, I DO. Not only is origin not known, but it seems to also be a way of ushering in economic reforms that are not of US origin. Or do you trust the world's billionaires have a good, fair plan in store for you and everyone else? Maybe you do, they say you "won't own anything and you'll be happy". What could POSSIBLY GO WRONG WITH THAT IDEA? The only time I might consider that idea to have any merit at all would be if it came from someone who was penniless and sought to live with no posessions. But coming from some economic forum that 99.999999999% of humanity wasn't invited to and where the concentration of wealth was probably beyond staggering, I say "No thanks!"

@Flowerwall : I am speechless. Sounds like too great a power to overcome..

@HankSherman What does that mean? What is too great a power? Do you mean billionaires accumulated, sum wealth and power?YES! A powerful force! It could easily be capable of large scale, seismic change.

Now do I mean to say everyone is acting as agent of the wealthy elite, such as mentioned here? Gen Milley, etc.? No, I think Gen. Milley truly acts from his perceived "in best interests of the country". He should NOT be faulted for that. On the other hand we all, as citizens, should not let ourselves be sitting ducks and accept the globalists plans for the US.

@Flowerwall : and your solutions are???

@HankSherman Vote Republican until the Democrats have something better to offer.

@Flowerwall : republicans better offers???

@HankSherman Freedom, the ability to own your own possessions, and a law and order society are what every person needs.

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While I agree Lt. Col. (NOT Lt. Gen.) Scheller is being mistreated, I do not agree that anyone other than Biden is responsible. Biden got advice, he ignored much of it, hence the catastrophic withdrawal is his decision.

Last, Milley is not a Lt. Gen. either, he is a General, meaning 4, not 3 stars.

We all know tRump started the removal process and some news sources (not Faux Noise) have said tRump and his enablers made it hard for any future president to back out. As it was well past time it could have been done in a more beneficial manner but we don't know what restrictions were placed on Biden.

I apologizr for the misspeak. I can often make small errors, as I did her whwn trying to copy their proper way of naming them, and I am not familiar with exact military rankings either. The person speaking in testimony right now just said Biden lied about not being advised about keeping2,500 troops there. It does appear this is what happened.

@JackPedigo You conflate ending our involvement with the manner in which it was done. No one disputes we should have left, most say the manner of withdrawal was horrible.

@Alienbeing And after 20 years how should we have left? Everything I have read points at corruption and extreme tribalism among the Afghans as the reason this has always been an unwinnable war. A war that not only cost many thousand lives but trillions of dollars. tRump started this ball rolling and yet we seldom hear of how his actions (like making deals with the Taliban) hindered any slow and coordinated pullout. Everyone has an opinion and I have mine. But I try to look at all sides and get as much information as I can.

@JackPedigo We should have first removed all Americans and all those Afghans that were in peril because of their cooperation with us. After that was done, then we pull troops.

I agree the war was unwindable. Trump did start absolute withdrawal, but Biden screwed up the mechanics of that withdrawal.

Last it really does not seem you try to look at all sides. If you don't think the withdrawal was a total mess not only are you in a minority, you let political bias rule your thought process.

Trump was and remains a total pig of a human, however Biden messed up the withdrawal.

@Alienbeing More, 'should haves.' This morning on NPR was a discussion on this event and the group was divided. Again, others and our opinions often differ.

@JackPedigo :More should haves. Absolutly, it is the very "should haves" that make the argument. Get real.

Your opinion seems to be it is OK to abandon our citizens and people who helped us. I am very glad I don't have to rely on you or your kind for anything.

@Alienbeing Now a line has been crossed and so this conversation is over.

@JackPedigo Yes you did cross the line. You exhibited that you don't care about others, Losing is a problem for you and your argument is a loser.

@Alienbeing: was wondering how many troops it would have taken to accomplished the withdrawal of Americans, and " friendlies"??

@HankSherman No you weren't. However the answer is it does NOT matter. We don't leave people behind. Maybe you would, but no honorable person or Nation would. Remember anything about the Marines you say you served in?

@Alienbeing : spoken like a true lawyer, a flat out statement like you know what you're talking about. And then reference to something you don't know, or don't accept, MIAs in viet nam, proved that was a crock. Boots on the ground know that what is ideal, and what is practical are often two different realities. The honor is that you continue to try to make things right.

@HankSherman I DO know what I am talking about. Before even attending Law School I served in a combat zone for a year.

MIA's mean MISSING. I never said nor implied we should stay in a zone forever searching for MISSING, and the people in question in Afghan. certainly weren't missing.

Your agrument holds no water.

@Alienbeing if they were not missing, then they should have been on the plane out......combat zone...as what??? ...."no you were'nt" = flat out statement...and I guess your answer to my original question was..."it does not matter"...

@HankSherman For one who claims military service you sure are ignorant of definitions. What were you an E-1?

You referenced Viet Nam and MIA's. Everywhere, but particualrly in Nam bodies can lost due to foliage. Additionally an enemy may or may not report a capture, hence even a POW can be classified as MIA.

The remainder of your reply makes no sense so I can't comment on it.

@Alienbeing I'm sure you can't

@HankSherman You are sure I can't. What you should be sure of is you have no knowledge of the topic to which you interjected yourself.

When you learn what MIA means and when you see that the first sentence of your 10/5 reply shows you are very confused, then, perhaps you might make sese.

You are dismissed.

@Alienbeing: lol....I understand

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More crap from Faux Noise. Even the few incidents where they accidentally tell the truth does not make this a viable source of information. We need to stop giving these jerks our time.

Okay you shot the messenger, now what about the message?

@Flowerwall โ€œMore crap from Faux Noiseโ€ shoots the message.

@Flowerwall Often, especially with Faux Noise, one cannot trust the message. To me, anyone who has served multiple stints at Iraq and/or Afghanistan has some screws loose.

@JackPedigo Its called following orders. One cannot refuse deployment.

@Alienbeing I was in the military and I know one can also have a choice in where they go. Often war zones or hardship tours are limited and one has to push to over ride the standards. Others do understand how PTSD affects people and their mental state especially after multiple tours in a war zone.

@JackPedigo I also was in the military, I am also a lawyer. NO one, ever had the ability to decline deployment.

While one can ask for a hardship deferral, decision it is not up to the asking party; and deferral of deployment to a war zone is rare, so rare that you don't have a point.

@Alienbeing No one said DECLINE deployment. One can ask for deployment. There is a difference.

@JackPedigo My reply to you referened the following "To me, anyone who has served multiple stints at Iraq and/or Afghanistan has some screws loose." YOU posted that on 9/29, see above. Your post assumes the person had a choice.

Try harder.

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