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Who will give an objective explanation of the Russia/Ukraine situation to someone who is more focused on domestic matters?

Please consider explaining why the USA is the world's police and refuting my foreign policy of "defend from within". I'm interested in hearing from anyone snd everyone, especially because you conservatives are so fucking easy to embarrass.

LovinLarge 8 Feb 24
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1

As the US teeters on the brink of fascism and minority control, Ukraine is, at best, a distraction from the work we should be doing to undo Putin's influence on the Republican Party.

Putin has been supporting Nazis in the US (besides Trump's encouragement) to polarize US politics, and encourages white supremacist republicans suggesting that Russia shares the values of white supremacy (and kleptocratic corruption).

Putin's reference to Ukrainian Nazis had many people scratching their heads. But, apparently the CIA has been working with Ukrainian Nazis with the notion that they would help fight the new war. What a bad idea!!! The revelations below will confuse the shit out of anyone sympathetic to Ukraine. Putin wasted no time pointing it out.

"Washington has been backing literal neo-Nazi militias in Ukraine, who are in turn communicating with and training homegrown white supremacists."
"Late last year, in a vote that went completely unreported in the press, the United States was one of just two countries (the other being Ukraine) to vote against a UN draft resolution “combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fueling contemporary forms of racism.” "The Biden administration deployed a nearly identical, boilerplate explanation for its no vote that Donald Trump had used, citing the constitutional right to free speech even for those with repugnant views. "

[jacobinmag.com]

"Azov is a militia that has been incorporated into the Ukrainian National Guard, and is considered one of the most effective units in the field against pro-Russian separatists. But it also widely known as a bastion of neo-Nazism within the ranks of the Ukrainian military..." "Azov maintains a semi-underground outfit called the “Misanthropic Division” that recruits heavily among the ranks of neo-Nazi youth in France, Germany and Scandinavia. Foreign fighters are promised training with heavy weapons, including tanks, at Ukrainian camps filled with fascist fellow travelers. "

"The story of how American arms began flowing towards the Nazi-inspired militia began in October 2016, when the Texas-based AirTronic company announced a contract to deliver $5.5 million dollars worth of PSRL-1 rocket propelled grenade launchers to “an Allied European military customer.” In June 2017, photos turned up on Azov’s website showing its fighters testing PSRL-1 grenade launchers in the field."

[therealnews.com]

So the situation in Ukraine is complicated by both Russian and US political involvement and whose interests are being served may be at issue in the invasion. These reports make it appear as though the US has been using Ukraine to further its own interests rather than just addressing the invasion after the fact on behalf of the global community. The plot thickens.

@LovinLarge

Part of Ukraine's gaining of 'independence' was an agreement with Russia wherein Ukraine gave up it's nuclear missiles in exchange for Russian 'protection'. At that point, Ukraine was ruled by a Putin stooge, so 'independence' was not a problem. Ukraine continued within the Russian sphere of corruption. Then in 2014, the stooge was deposed. That new 'independence' still had to deal with extensive corruption, which is partly why Hunter Biden got hired. The US sought to foster Ukraine's independence and movement away from Russian 'protection'.

If the US's 'moral high ground' had more credibility, Ukraine might look like less of a political football. While the US is certainly much better than Russia in so many ways, the rampant corruption, failed justice systems, fascist policing, wealth disparity, all argue against our own interests. Unsurprisingly, the Republicans who side with Putin have been at the forefront of stopping progress on these moral failings.

2

America is beating Russia in every significant manner and now Putin needs customers for his oil and NG. He is stronger, because of his alliance with Xi for the moment, and we are currently very weak. Without our alliances we'd be dead in the water against them. Because of the alliances we might prevail but it will be costly and our climate is not waiting for us. That's why I think none of this really matters. Taiwan will now be taken by Xi but both populations will be significant trouble for the ruling class. Their populations will constantly fight back from within. Like I said, the environment will soon determine all political and geographical actions and most, if not all, of human life will perish. I think that's a good thing but folks say I'm nuts.

9

What's happening in Ukraine and Russia concerns the entire world.
Everything Putin does is in an effort to strengthen his positions and weaken NATO.
He's trying to keep Ukraine from ever entering the NATO alliance.

The US is capable of getting its allies and partners to mount resistance to Russia.
Which is precisely what is occurring now.

We are directly impacted by what he's been doing for a number of years.
Cyber-security is a huge factor.
This is a major concern on not just an international level, but also on a domestic level.

It has already been demonstrated that Russian-backed hackers can infiltrate our cyber defenses.
This has been an ongoing problem for quite some time. Many of our domestic enterprises are susceptible to attack.
The power grid, rail services, water supplies, banking, and communication
functions could all be tampered with.
Among others.

It is also clear that regional disruption, in ANY part of the world, usually causes a ripple-effect on the rest of the world in a number of ways.
Not the least of which is emboldening other wannabe dictators to seize territory. Taiwan and China are an excellent example of this.
If Russia is allowed to get away with their manufactured "rational" for an invasion of another sovereign nation, the Chinese government will see this as a green light to invade Taiwan.
Something they've wanted to do ever since I can remember.

Not to mention that Russian influence is already taken hold in the US, as well as China.

Wealthy and connected people from both nations have invested heavily in the US, and other parts of the world.
They own vast amounts of property here. They use their wealth to influence business. They are heavily invested in banking and other entities.

Focusing on a domestic agenda while ignoring what's happening in the rest of the world is a dangerous thing.

We all share the same planet. What impacts one, impacts us all.

Back when Germany was taking over Europe, many Americans had no desire to get involved in another world war.
The nation was still trying to recover from the Depression and had little interest in involvement with the problems of Europe.
The war there had already been underway well before we finally entered it.

Can you imagine what the world could look like now if Hitler had been allowed to achieve his desired outcome?

Focusing solely on domestic issues is untenable.
Besides, this nation has already proved it can do more than one thing at a time.

Btw, I'm neither conservative nor liberal.
Not a republican or democrat either.

I could not put it more elegantly. Thank you.

Thanks for your effort. To clarify, no one is focusing solely on domestic issues.

I think most Americans would agree with your position. I have mixed feelings. Sanctions are one thing, bloodshed is something else.

To summarize, I understand you to say that the USA should defend Ukraine as this invasion is another Russian step toward world domination. You did a good job of showing that potential.

I am worried, especially for our young people of military age and their families.

@LovinLarge I never said I support the US going to war with Russia. I'd rather not commit any US troops to this. I think ALL other avenues should be explored before entering armed conflict anywhere.
However, this is precisely why we maintain our military. It's because of this kind of shit that we must always be prepared.
Those who serve know this.
No one takes their participation lightly.

Unfortunately, throughout history, there are men who think they can do whatever they want to get whatever they want.
We've seen it countless times.
Putin is just another in a long line of tyrannical maniacs. If he isn't stopped, he won't stop.
If there is bloodshed, it's ALL on Putin.
Of course I worry about our military members and their families, but that is just another sad fact of life.

Defending Ukraine's right to exist is vital to every nation of the world.
(If the country in this case was Israel, there would be little to no discussion. It would just be done.)
Putin must be stopped, by any means necessary.
Preferably, with as few innocent victims as possible.

"Defending from within" is not remotely possible. Isolationism never works.
It only makes matters exponentially worse.
Eventually, the practice fails in spectacular fashion, and a lot more people die as a result.

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