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When I had my doubts about my own religion I decided to do some research. I decided to start at the beginning and do some research about what king of historical evidence was there of Jesus. Well I found out the main evidence was of a writing by Josephus. My biggest issue with that that evidence was that Josephus was born in 37 AD or four years AFTER Jesus death. How can someone born 4 years after Jesus death be a historical argument about Jesus. Also Josephus was a turncoat and even said that scriptures said that it was predicted that Vespasian would be leader of the Jews. Others are say that disciples willing to die for Jesus was proof that he was real but no real proof that they existed either and earliest writing about them are 40-50 years after their death. Couple this with the fact that only 1% of the people in that time could read and you could easily see people using this as a power play to get people to do what they want. I was a Christian at the time so I really wanted to see evidence but in no way could I believe people being used as proof that weren’t even born when Jesus and disciples were alive. I’ve seen Christians use Eusebius writings as proof Jesus existed and he was born 200 years after Jesus was born and that’s really crazy

abyers1970 7 Nov 24
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9 comments

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I stumbled on a renown author and historical researcher, John Dominic Crossan [en.wikipedia.org] He was an Irish Catholic priest (former) who took up the historical time period of the time of 'Jesus.' He wrote numerous books, three of which I have. I also have a degree in European History including this time frame, so many of the things I have learned coincided with his works. He also used mis-translations of the bible to make his points one of which stated, as you said, very few were literate so history was passed down orally. One mis-translation concerned the word heard which was mis-translated into saw (to read). He did show the Romans had stone carvings of a man often surrounded by a group of followers. Still, no direct connection to the 'Christ' (not his name bu a title, can be made. Going through some of the Roman catacombs the symbol of the cross did not appear until the 3rd century CE. For me one item that can indicate objectivity is the use of BCE (before the common Era) instead of BC and ACE, often just BE (after the common era) instead of AD.

[en.wikipedia.org]

[coinweek.com]

I have seen credible evidence that suggests there was such a person so, again, I think non-believers should simply stop arguing this point. It's irrelevant, anyway, to the aspect of Jesus being divine. That is silly. He seems to have been a Buddha figure and people love promoting such figures to divine positions because there is enlightenment in them. Humans often make others grandiose figures (and some are very poor humans).

@rainmanjr Often people take an extreme view. It was suggested such a person did exist but was nothing like what has been written (some 80-200 years later). I rechecked one of the Crossan books and he surmised he was a figure as you have said.

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If I were @Marionville I'd suggest the point is moot.

The historicity of a rabbi we call Jesus is as relevant as the lack of any evidence of Moses or Abraham in the context of a myth about superbeing creators of the universe.

Correct! This argument is so absolutely moot…and getting to the point of becoming so monotonously repetitious that I’m rendered mute by it! But Hallelujah!…for the scales of bamboozlement falling from the eyes of those who can see clearly now!

….and no I wasn’t angling that as a cue for another ditty….!

@Marionville too late:

@waitingforgodo …I thought you’d have gone for this one…

@waitingforgodo Sweet. I'd not heard that and, obviously, don't listen to her much. Maybe I should change that as my habitual artists are feeling a bit old. I think this song is about feeling elated over having killed someone that was toxic or fatal to the character that killed them. As such, it is a very good response to Xtians when one (or many) die.

1

Interestingly Josephus does write quite extensively, as do several other Roman and Jewish historians, about John the Baptist and his attempted political overthrow of Herod Antipas because of his adultery with his sister in law and half sister Herodias wife of Herod Archelaus, (NOT Philip as stated in the Gospels), for which he had divorced his first wife Phasaelis, the daughter of King Aretas IV of Nabatea, which almost lead to war, had not the Romans stepped in to calm things with the threat of over whelming force.
In none of these accounts is there any mention of John claiming to be the Herald of the Messiah, or of Jesus of Nazareth, because Herod's main reason for executing John the B was for blasphemy for declaring himself the promised Messiah of the Jews.
After the martyrdom of John his church continued for many years, before splintering, but even today a small faction of Mandaean Christian still still exist in Iraq worshiping John as the true christ and decrying Jesus as the great usurper.

2

The supposed "evidence" in the writing of Josephus is known to be faked and was inserted by others after his death so the only evidence that Jesus existed is from the gospels written many years after his death.
The gospel of Mark was the first to be written and the others are thought to be copies with some stuff added. For example the nativity does not appear in the gospel of Mark and was probably added to give Jesus a divine character.
The god of the new testament is quite different to the original Jewish god who was vindictive, nasty, jealous and genocidal. Not a nice little god at all.

The new testament god is not really much better. Jesus still supported the old laws, it claims, still promoted genocide, sexism and racism, and created a death cult, which worshiped a mass extiction event in the imagined future as a good thing.

@Fernapple Yes I suppose Christians do cherry pick the good bits like loving your neighbour and despising money lenders but ignore the " drop everything and follow me because the world is going to end soon anyway".

5

I summarise your words: "I decided to think for myself.".

0

The entire Jesus thing is really crazy. Believers want so badly to claim they know the plan and also know how we got here and where we are going. For anyone to make these claims is the biggest lie on earth.

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There is no evidence at all about any of this and you have now found it to be so.

8

No one can prove Jesus ever existed.
All claims have been debunked.
In spite of all that, believers stubbornly insist their gods are real.

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