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The book of Job. It seems that God and the Devil were playing games with this guy, but most Christians believe it was Job’s fear that caused the calamity. I call bullshit on this, because the whole premise was based on God protecting him with his “hedge” and the Devil thought it was unfair to say he was faithful while under God’s protection, so God removed it.

Rideauxb 7 Dec 19
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My dear (late) father considered the story of Job one of the most important in the Bible. He was catholic, but with increasing age increasingly "free thinking". More philosophical and agnostic than, well, certainly not dogmatic. To him the story could be summed up by: "Shit happens to good people." I think that point is entirely missed if anyone says Job brought it on, in whatever way. Job himself very verbousely ( so many words!!! On an on) keeps saying to his friends: "NO, for God's sake, I did NOT bring this on!" I feel the Christian as represented by the US right tend to see a God that is "just" in the way that we can conclude from a person's success ( ie wealth, status) they are "loved by God". And the opposite: being in dire straits, means, God does not love you. The God of the unmitigated free from all consideration capitalism. Not the God easily justified with the Bible. The book of Job certainly does contradicts that view, even if the reward does come at the end.

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Poor Job?
What about what was done to his wife and family as collateral damage?
The clear indication that wives and children are simply interchangeable possessions with no value in themselves.

Job is a very good reason to NOT want to exist in the "grace" of such a vicious monster.

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God was proved to be a cruel bastard to Job in the Old Testament. In Jewish Sunday School I learned to fear god.

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It was actually a "bet." A high-stakes bet at that. God pointed out Job, and then bet Satan that he wouldn't turn. It was initiated by God.

That's what I think Christians find most disturbing, and that's why they insist that it was something else, like Job's fear that brought on the disaster. It's the typical "blame the victim" mentality that they wholeheartedly embrace. If they were to allow, even for a minute, that this was God's doing, it would destroy their self-righteous ideology, and force them to deal with the very hard questions about life and suffering.

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I don't believe the author of Job believed they were writing an historical account. I believe it was intended to be viewed as poetic fiction right from the start. It's not the author's fault that later generations mistook it for inspired history.

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The book of Job is the story of God killing a bunch of people to win a bet with Satan. In the end Job asks God, why. God's answer; "Because I'm bigger than you." How could you possibly cast God in a worse light? Who thought it was a good idea to include this in the bible?

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I read it as proof of loyalty and blind faith under torture. Prisoners of war would use the story to inspire and motivate them to endure torture and prove their loyalty and faith.

My theory is that whoever wrote this it was to prepare their soldiers for the possibility of capture and torture and to ensure vital information would not be revealed.

Betty Level 8 Dec 19, 2017
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I like to joke that if god exisit then we are all in the book of Job. We are the Children of Job, the ones that all get killed.
and that book is just one of the things that makes god look like an asshole.

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I had never heard that Job's fear was theorized to cause all that mess. Not a good way to go though cuz then you'd have to tangle with solipsistic stuff like everything being an extension of yourself.

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I like DarkMatter2525's video on Job. It is basically a bet between God and Satan, and God tortures Job over this petty challenge.

Interesting...

Link since I didn't think to include it earlier:

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Isn’t this conundrum just another example of stories created by the restless mind of humans. And also fear being used as a proof for the flaws in the level of belief being a cause of a calamity in the bible.

Sounds like it...

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A fine example of Jewish story telling. Some of the verses in this book are quite profound.

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It's a good parable, though. Is loyalty bought, or can it be just given. At what point is your word and honor stronger than the trials and tribulations thrown at you. That one made sense to me.

Good? God killed his entire family over a bet. At what point would loyalty go out the window? I wouldn't be loyal to anyone who treated me like that.

I use that argument a lot too. If god exisit and would kill you in a bet with the devil does he deserve to be followed. I reject any god who acts in that manner.

@spiderwolfmoon this is kinda like that joke then, right? Would you kiss donald trump for a billion dollars? (In the joke the answer is🙂 Yes! How about for 1000 dollars? What type of person do you think I am? NO WAY! We have already figured out what type of person you are, we are just negotiating the price. Everything is a bet, so throw out the bet part, that is to show that the universe is bigger than the actors in it. The question is at what point is Job's loyalty to god, as he assuredly said it was. We discover that he is completely loyal, has the standard human complaints and self-universal doubt, but holds fast. At one point he becomes aware that the universe can take everything from him at the drop of a hat, but whose fault is that...it's the essence of existence. It's like being mad at cancer or being mad at god for cancer, or being mad at the universe because someone close to you has died. It is the essence of existence. Now to read what I wrote....hehe

Here is a real world example: You are a prosecuting attorney with a full family. You are prosecuting a mob figure with a particularly nasty disposition. To prosecute him, you have to risk yourself, your family and friends. What do you do? Do you do the job you have sworn to do and risk your loved ones, or do you fold and let him free to certainly kill again.

@JohnnyThorazine I get what you're saying. But at what point does loyalty become a job you're being paid to do. Is it still loyalty? I guess job is extremely loyal but gets none in return.

@JohnnyThorazine I think we are kind of saying the same thing but in different ways lol

@spiderwolfmoon there is a difference between a paying job and swearing an oath, or entering into an agreement, or swearing an allegiance. Really, I think a precursor lesson here is: be careful what you agree to if you have a strong sense of honor. haha!

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