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Is religious belief in itself inherently harmful to a society - or does it become toxic only when co-opted by a priest class (as has happened in the majority of early civilizations) and used as the means of social control and the accumulation of power?

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moNOtheist 7 June 4
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15 comments

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1

A lot of religions inherently set up a sort of "us vs. them" mentality, especially in the Qu'ran and the Old Testament, where everyone who disagrees with you is a sinning heathen whom you must kill or convert. I would argue that that sort of "civil war fostering" is inherently harmful to societies.

0

For 7000 years I feel religion was a net pos for humans. In the 21st it's an idea that's time is WELL over. like the trash can I forgot to put out for the trash men this week. GROSS.

1

It is harmful in that it demands one to believe some really weird stuff without evidence. It fosters the "my opinion is as good as anybody else's" thinking. Sorry, Jasper, you need evidence to make that claim.

1

Humans are inherently harmful, period.

2

Religion varies in how harmful it is; some of it is occasionally even beneficial. However, the underpinning of virtually all religion is the failed epistemology of religious faith and that IS harmful. It is more or less harmful depending on how it is compartmentalized or qualified. Some theists deploy religious faith only in very specific contexts, mostly in my view as an avoidance strategy on particular topics (the fact of mortality, yours and others, being the biggest one). For some the tenets of religious faith are little more than shared campfire stories around which their community coalesces. Some deploy it much more universally and it leaks badly into everyday life (fundamentalists).

But I don't see how you can use religious faith (belief without requiring substantiation) to ANY degree without diminishing yourself and humanity just a bit -- and potentially a whole lot.

@Matias I mostly address fundamentalism, which is what I came out of and therefore most familiar with, and what is most harmful to society. They DO regard it as a viable alternative to science, at least where science conflicts with their dogma. The Bible DOES teach that "mere" human wisdom is to be disparaged, and blind faith affirmed, and as literalists, they fully and uncritically embrace that teaching.

While it's true that many theists hold their faith more loosely than that, the whole belief system is still based on this creaky foundation and shot through with that general class of assumptions -- that there is a divine Mystery that is beyond human comprehension and therefore beyond reasoning -- that intuition and feelings have more validity than they should, if not outright primacy over mind, and so forth.

That there are naturalistic explanations for how some woo "works" at times, is obvious. That is beside my point, which is that woo itself has no basis that would justify belief in it.

1

Can you think of any examples where it is not co-opted by a priest class and exploited for their benefit? Buddhism is probably the only thing that comes close.

BD66 Level 8 June 4, 2018

Ancient Greece. Religion was kept at a remove from governance (unlike, for example, Egypt, where the pharaoh was chief priest - later the living god Horus) and there existed no powerful priest class. The only function of a priest was to tend the temple dedicated to a particular god, in which the deity was believed sometimes to reside, without any say in the running of the city-state. Not that the Greeks didn't honor their religious beliefs, but these were kept quite separate from political considerations.

1

I do not see religion as innately harmful, history suggests that it tends to become that way by the efforts of men to use it's power to empower and enrich themselves. Joel Osteen comes to mind as do many others. Having said that religion also tends to produce wars, persecution and the occasional genocide. The hold of religion is weakening in the more enlightened areas of the world, but it will be a long process to be rid of them or at least drive them from positions of power.

2

There's a documentary called 'Zeitgeist the Movie' (on Netflix) that shows how religions hijacked pagan beliefs for millennium...all to control the masses. The film also goes on to show how economics and the military are related and then some.

Pook Level 5 June 4, 2018
1

I'm not so sure its entirely the priestly part of it so much as when religion and government meet and coerce each other into power and control struggles and big money gets involved. If they stuck to the nitty-gritty and just kept to the faith instead of the power and money plays I think it wouldn't be anything threatening at all. The more violent parts wouldn't have been added or would have at least been explained and countered better. The whole thing would be smoother and more understandable as is instead of all the arguments and branching off.

AmyLF Level 7 June 4, 2018

For most of human history after the invention of agriculture, priests were among the highest elites - often, the highest - and tightly held the knowledge upon which the society depended, from calculating the optimum time for planting (based upon the newly devised solar calendar) to the smelting of metal (a technology jealously guarded by the ancient Egyptian priesthood). From the beginning, they've been closely involved in managing, and thus governing.

@moNOtheist Yes, I'm aware. Government and religion has always been deeply interwoven. The US started with an intention to keep them separate, thus the division between church and state but I believe it's been failing miserably since around the 1940s. It's only becoming more apparent recently just how disastrous it's become for us now. It seems the only people not seeing it are the ones getting something out of the deal... and that combination is what makes religion more dangerous.

@AmyLF Absolutely. And Christian zealotry looks to be the most possible path to fascism in the US. Have you read Chris Hedges' 'American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America'? He lays out some troubling developments, of which there have been rather more since its publication in 2007...

2

I pick #1 because it's mere presence makes #2 inevitable

1

I believe that throughout history, religion has resorted to all kinds of means to exert control- Control of the weather, crops, enemies, other religions. ultimately that control has been in favour of the best interest of the religion to the cost and detriment of all, including, ultimately, its adherents. Such mechanisms invariably result in heirarchical systems; adherents engage in and support the system to advance in the heirarchy and increase controls. To answer in short, in my opinion, faith itself can be relatively harmless. But like so many seemingly innocuous things, it can be weaponised...

3

At this time in history, any belief that hampers the ability to absorb new information and facts is harmful.

Couldn't agree more myself 🙂

@Matias It depends on the religion does it not?

@Matias Seems to me that once the religion added fundamentalist to its name thinking stops.

2

Religion needs to adapt to changes in society, as humankind evolves. Since the printing press, rather than verbal tales around the campfire, adapting to each new generation, we are stuck with a religion created for a society in the middle east 2000 years ago. It hardly correlates with our modern society. Most of the biblical content is thrown out as bathwater, nowadays, but whatever is useful to the governing elites, will be showcased as the baby to be praised.

Our modern society is ready for a more plausible humanistic way of life.

Great comment - thank you 🙂

1

In our modern age, where we are so dependent on technology, religion is harmful. That's because it promotes magical thinking. Today we see religions push back on science. It is detrimental to society when rational thinking is not in use.

6

I think when mankind was young, religion helped society grow up. Now that we have grown, religion holds us back.

Although organized religion appears to have been a characteristic of early civilizations, together with emergence of the specialization of labor and a growing hierarchy of power.

@moNOtheist chalk it up to human nature.

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