The US Supreme Court has sided with the baker who refused, on religious grounds, to make a wedding cake for a gay male couple. Is this a portent of what's to come . . . The dissolution of gay marriage, the rolling back of Roe v. Wade? We're heading backward, backward, backward, and it seems the inmates are running the prison. To add to the misery I'm feeling, our illustrious president stated that he "has the absolute right to pardon himself". Note the choice of the word "absolute". These are frightening times in the USA, and I'm beginning to wonder if the country can be pulled back from the brink or if it will inexorably slide into a despotic theocracy.
You really should change the post to the true holding of the case unless of course youre just trying to instigate discussion--the court held: "The outcome of cases like this in other circumstances must await further elaboration in the courts, all in the
context of recognizing that these disputes must be resolved
with tolerance, without undue disrespect to sincere
religious beliefs, and without subjecting gay persons to
indignities when they seek goods and services in an open
The court ruled in his favor because at the time Colorado hadnt recognized gay marriage so he thought it was ok to discriminate and the commission handling the case didnt make a neutral ruling considering his religious beliefs. They didnt "side" with discrimination.
Think about this would you rather:
a) Force someone to not disclose their beliefs and force them to provide services to someone they hate.
b) Force someone to disclose their beliefs and not provide services to someone they hate.
I opt for b.
I'd rather give my money to someone that doesn't hate me and I know it...
... than give my money to someone that does hate me but I don't know it.
Also, the decision was narrow and at most covers custom artistic work on non-essential items.
It has nothing to do with providing basic services or essential services.
I'm also of the school of thought that says screw the bigots, just take your business elsewhere. EXCEPT, this establishes a precedent for all sorts of prejudice where LGBTQ can be denied access to housing, jobs, education, medical care, etc. And if you can discriminate against LGBTQ, then why not blacks, Muslims, Jews, ...?
Elections have consequences and this is an early warning of what we can expect from right-wing politics down the road if we don't start voting like it matters!
Just something I'd like to point out.
When anyone purchases a business license, they are agreeing to serve the public. That means ALL the public.
"No shirt, no shoes, no service", is in reference to health codes.
Hate groups can be denied. They are not a protected class, they are criminals.
This whole "We have the right to refuse service to anyone" is NOT any kind of law.
I'm so sick of this bullshit. These religious assholes use their delusions as justification to discriminate. SCOTUS got this one REALLY WRONG.
The verdict may be considered positive when one considers that the justices in their arguments left it wide open for interpretation by the Supreme Court, and some of their comments are based solely on the notion that the original decision was handed down by a biased commission. If it goes all the way to the Supreme Court, and I think it will, it is still possible that they will find in favor of the couple and remain consistent with previous decisions and Roe vs Wade will not be affected. We can but hope.
Everyone thinks that societal progress is a hard line that is either moving forward or backwards but it is not. Progress is a pendulum being pulled along a track. You're not only going to see the bottom of the pendulum, but the top is where it counts. Obama was a big step forward racially and with health care so all the conservatives hated him and came out in droves the next chance they had. That's Trump.
Point being, we're still moving forward, this is just the expected backslide. Conservatives pushed because they were angry and liberals sat on their heels because they had gotten what they wanted. The next will be another big push forward because liberals are back in the angry seat.
I'm not bothered much about the cake issue. Mostly it was about gay activists targeting fervent Christians. And it's not about the cake, it's about what goes on top. Having a socialist tendency, I never thought I would be happy to hear 'let the market decide'. I never heard of the decorations, such as two guys kissing, being sold separately. Maybe they are. That could help too.
It was a narrow decision, luckily, applicable only to the facts of that case. Are we a scarier country? Definitely. We're stuck with this Supreme Court for a while but not with the president. Originally when it wasn't possible for him to get elected, I said don't worry. Now, if the idiots prevail a second time, then we're toast.
Hate is always hate -- no matter how it is cloistered. People are naturally prejudiced against everything not of their 'click' (however that is defined at the moment). In this case I agree with the Supreme Court -- all businesses have the right not to serve anyone. Haven't you ever seen the sign 'no shirt, no shoes, no service'? There is a balance to this -- boycott or protest the business. Needing the government to enforce this seems like giving up. Fight back (not violently). The Native Americans and Black people have had to deal with this same hate.
It's not really accurate to say that the court sided with the baker, but rather that they found that the Colorado Civil Rights Commission was actively hostile to religion (rather than being neutral) in this case. They also cited as a factor the timing: this occurred in 2012, when neither the state of Colorado nor the federal government recognized same-sex marriages as legal. The wording of this ruling was narrowly written based on the particular facts and circumstances of this case.
It's also worth keeping in mind that a key element in this case was the degree of artistry involved in making a custom wedding cake, which goes far beyond just "baking a cake". There's not only a freedom of religion issue but also a freedom of speech issue. Although I don't share the baker's religious beliefs, these are factors that tend to make me sympathetic to him.
Do I have an issue with the baker's? Sure, they're bigots. Do I have an issue with the Supreme Court's decision? Not really. Now the public can decide whether to give the bakers their business, or show their disapproval and take their business elsewhere. Like the free speech issue, if you don't allow people to say and act as they wish, regular people don't know who the bigots, nutters, etc are. The old saying, "give someone enough rope, and they'll hang themselves."
As for Trump, I have neither the time nor the energy to attempt ti answer that. But at least we know he's a bigot, nutter, etc!! ?
This from CNN:
“Louise Melling, deputy legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union, emphasized the narrowness of the opinion.
‘The court reversed the Masterpiece Cakeshop decision based on concerns unique to the case but reaffirmed its longstanding rule that states can prevent the harms of discrimination in the marketplace, including against LGBT people,’ Melling said in a statement.”
There is no reason to panic.
I'm shocked, dismayed, sickened, horrified.
What's worse is witnessing the right wing media celebrating the event.
This is what happened:
A gay couple, much in love, wanted to a buy a wedding cake for their reception.
The shop owner decided they were immoral.
He offered to take their money for the cake but wouldn't decorate their cake - because they're immoral.
These religious bigots have complained about being 'attacked'. Perhaps they now have an inkling of what it feels like to be gay.