True. Some respondents to this post have proposed the idea of making it legal to prostitute one's body but keep it illegal to purchase a prostitute. The idea being that it will shift the condemnation from the prostitute (usual a woman) to the john (usually a man). I think it's wrong to ban it for either participant and if we legalize it completely, the social status of prostitutes, and johns as well, will probably rise.

@RoboGraham I agree, I think legalizing it is the way to go. It is after all just sex and just a transaction...no big deal. Legalizing it will hopefully remove the dangers and abuse that it mostly operates under presently.

Excellent point, the double standards live on unfortunately.

I used to believe in legalisation. But all that does is reinforce the cultural idea that women's bodies are a commodity, which is degrading.

[m.spiegel.de]

Dear I don’t think I’ve got a century or two left in me

[m.spiegel.de]

@Ellatynemouth The problems cited in that article seems more to do with Human Trafficking than the legalisation of prostitution. I doubt the trafficking only started after legalisation and I'm sure the law didn't make it legal for 14 year old girls to become prostitutes. Generally, making something illegal drives it underground and creates situations like the ones illustrated in that article.

@djalicex Unfortunately there will always be perverts who want to have sex with children, some are obcessed with virgins and so on. They are just plain sick.

@djalicex
Ellatynemouth thinks that the spiegel article is absolute proof that legal prostitution cannot work. She has been posting it everywhere. She doesn't seem to realize that it is focused on one example of a legal system and that there are many other countries that have legal systems of prostitution that function much better.

@SACatWalker it’s not illegal to offer it but it’s illegal to purchase it !! lol

Yeah, it's just as ridiculous.

I detect the whiff of incel.

@Ellatynemouth
I agree. The incel movement is based on the hatred of women because they can’t get one.

I feel sorry for socially inept guys like these but you shouldn’t blame other people (in this case women) for your own shortcomings. This is exactly what men have done through the ages and the incel movement is just another very dangerous manifestation of this.

But that might verify what has been said above re: the emotional part

[m.spiegel.de]

[m.spiegel.de]

[m.spiegel.de]

@Ellatynemouth So has normal work....so the concept is that we need to fix the concept of "work" so that no one is exploited or forced to work. But working for sex at a fundamental level is not an issues. Grind that ax elsewhere.

@MissaDixon

You have no right to silence me.

@Ellatynemouth we need to move 5 Billion (that's billion) people NOW because of global warming...So...it's low on my priority list right now. And I'm confused ( said with zero distrspect and in complete honestly) why there is anything more important than that. Sure We must make sure that sex workers are treated as the same as every other type of worker which is MUCH better than they are now. But saving lives is more important right now. #Priorities.

[m.spiegel.de]

Those who were not abused, are they also victims?

That’s called transference—- counter transference a complicated psychological relationship between at least 2 or more people where deep internal experiences can be relived. So yes that can be a dangerous situation and abuse hx can be re-enacted

Yes prostitution can be a resounding or re-enactment of abuse as a child but I can say what the statistics might indicate

How do you know that most were abused? Please site some evidence?

Definition of sexual intercourse: "Involving the penetration of the vagina by the penis."
Regardless of the circumstances that led to the penetration, sex is still sex. Masturbation by definition is the act of achieving sexual gratification without the aid of another person. Prostitution cannot be masturbation because it inherently involves at least two people. I agree that money can never buy love, intimacy and romance but it most definitely can, and does, buy sex.

Porn, movies, advertisements, magazines... also commodify sex. should they be banned as well?

Consensual sex already is free for those who are able to find willing partners. How can that be the answer if it already is the case? Are you suggesting that prostitutes ought to work for free?

Definition of debase: "To lower the value of something or the moral character of someone." The use of a prostitute does not inherently lower the prostitutes moral character. It is a matter of perception. Because society views prostitution as dirty, evil, immoral, etc... the moral character of prostitutes are lowered but that wouldn't be so if people weren't conditioned to perceive them that way.

If I hire a masseuse I do not own her for a few hours. She agreed to provide a service and she is free to renege on that agreement at any time she chooses. The same ought to be true for prostitutes. The only reason it is not is because prostitutes operate outside of the law and therefore have little to no choice in the matter of how their bodies are used. If it were legal, the prostitute would be able to choose what she is willing to do and what she is not. And she could make it stop at any time that she feels uncomfortable without fear of abuse from a pimp.

Yes of course the vast majority of men who agree with prostitution would not agree to prostitute themselves to other men. The vast majority of them are not homosexual so it would be an utterly disgusting experience for them. The fact that most men would turn down an offer of homosexual sex for money does not prove that prostitution is immoral and the fact that you would like to see them do it makes me a bit concerned about your morality.

As for the article you provided, it seems rather sensationalized. I would wager that the horror stories presented in the article are the exception rather than the rule. I don't doubt that some men are violent and treat the women like shit and that some prostitutes work in poor conditions but that doesn't mean that the entire industry is pure evil. The solution is to regulate the industry more tightly, prosecute Johns who step out of line and punish employers who do not provide safe working conditions for their prostitutes.

I think the only way to know for sure if the act of trading sex for money is actually detrimental to a person is through scientific study. Until science confirms that, prostitutes working in safe conditions where they are free to refuse services that they are not comfortable performing without fear of punishment, actually experience detrimental effects, I will continue to believe that there is no harming in selling sex.

I think we have a concensus of sorts as most of us women and men note an exploitive quality to ( legalized) prostitution but we as non- conformists abhor legal intervention into morality as it rarely works. But I see many valid points made by you all

@RoboGraham

If I rent out my body to a man for two hours.

If I find him repulsive, but I need the cash because I'm behind with the rent.

If I have to act out enjoyment, and make fake groaning noises because I want to keep him as a future client.

If I have to develop coping strategies, so I can mentally cut off from what's happening and imagine it is happening to someone else instead - just to get through it.

If I focus intently on the good things in my life.. Children, friends, pets. And that helps me cope, because I know that when it's over with I'll feel empty and used.

But the cash.

If I'm worrying that he might be violent or that he won't pay what he's supposed to - so try to feign pleasure even more.

If I sometimes feel nauseated for a few seconds because I hate what's happening, and my first instinct when he has left is to get in the shower and to scrub all traces of him away. I would ask...

Is that 'sex'?

@Ellatynemouth It's certainly not love making but yes it is sex.

@RoboGraham

No it's not. It's glorified masturbation.

@Ellatynemouth Call it what you will. It doesn't change the fact that prostitution in a legal regulated environment is safer, cleaner, more respectable and less degrading than it is under our current irrational illegal system in which prostitution operates in the black market.

@RoboGraham

Says a man who's never sold his body for cash. Has never been trafficked or threatened by a pimp. All things that have increased in Germany since legalisation.

@Ellatynemouth Incorrect. Those negative aspects of the industry have not increased since legalization. What has increased is reports of those bad things occurring. That's one of the greatest parts about legalization. Prostitutes are not persecuted by the police so they feel safe reporting those things. I assure you, all that bad stuff happens more often in an illegal unregulated system and almost all of it goes unreported because prostitutes know that no good will come of admitting to police that they are breaking the law.

Also, you do not know what has happened to me so don't make assumptions.

One more thing, try googling glorified masturbation. See what comes up.

@RoboGraham

Try reading this link.

I've had my fill of listening to men defend prostitution, and in turn the commodification of women's bodies. You disgust me.

[m.spiegel.de]

Well, paid work debases human dignity. Whether the income is generated by hiring out one's hands, one's brain or any other organs is really irrelevant.

@Ellatynemouth There are plenty of women defending it too. I still don't see how having the option of commodifying ones body is a bad thing. And if attempting to improve living and working conditions of prostitutes by legalizing their profession disgusts you then I am proud to be disgusting.

Also, just because legal prostitution in Germany is not going well does not mean that it can't work. There are many other places where it is legal and functioning safely. The Germany system is just one example out of many.

@Ellatynemouth, @PontifexMarximus So are you saying that self employed prostitutes are not debased?

@RoboGraham any unpleasant task is debasing. Collecting rubbish is as is working in coal mine.

@RoboGraham correct: actors, models etc are commodifying their bodies and so are bricklayers, garbage collectors etc.

@PontifexMarximus So are you saying that people should just stop performing unpleasant tasks?

@sassysapiosexual

I once read an article about a woman, who although being married, felt lonely. With her husband's agreement she hired a man to cuddle her.

There were photos in the article of this man sat on her sofa with his arms around her, cuddling her. She was smiling.

At the end of the day he was an employee.

But what if they could, what if they wanted too? Are you assuming every one who may make that choice is mentally ill? In denial? I am curious. How can we really answer the question of its veracity as a job if the only base line we have is mired in cultural stigma, illegality and questionable practices?

Why? Do you feel the same way about selling sex?

Thank you. It depresses me that your voice belongs to the minority. It dismays me to hear people defend, what is in essence, the commodification of women's bodies

@Ellatynemouth Just curious. Is manual labor not basically the same thing, the commodification of a persons body for the use of it as basically a tool? Removing the cultural and religious components what is wrong with two consenting or three or six exchanging money or other services for sex as long as it is agreeable to all parties? As opposed to people spending their lives in heavy manual labor, or other professions? Much like the drug war if we legalized it and applied the same labor protections other professions have and a clear framework for the safety of both the worker and the customer as well as allowed for its advertising to be open and honest in society I think it would very quickly destroy much of the criminal element to . The biggest hurdle I see is how we as a society negatively view and treat the subject of sex as purely for pleasure. That needs to change.

They most likely did experience a higher quality of living than we do nowadays.

Australia has legalised prostitution and it's safer for both prostitutes and customers.

@Lancer That’s the way it should be.

@SpikeTalon Are you joking or just ignorant of living conditions for ancient people?

@RoboGraham Neither. While the ancient Romans may not have had the modern conveniences we enjoy today, I think life was easier to live back then, not as many distractions.

@SpikeTalon no life in general wasn’t better however the Patricians were the wealthy and controlled almost all life

@Trajan61 dear Emperor you are abso right

Well put and of course you are right

Well Said

Yes, that would be ideal.