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The Eternal Return : Will we re-live this life?

Einstein considered that the cyclical model was an alternative to the idea that the universe is expanding.

This idea is that the universe starts with a big bang and ends with a big crunch. The universe will then "rinse and repeat."

Like this theory, Friedrich Nietzsche, wrote a scientific theory called eternal return. It considers time and space to repeat and the exact moments within them repeat as well.

In other words, our lives- and everything that happens to us will repeat over, and over, and over...

What do you think of this idea? Will we all just do it over again? Is the thought depressing?

silvereyes 8 Jan 3

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22 comments

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5

Western thought, Christianity, Judaism, Islam-- are some of the only linear thought religions in regard to time and they are the youngest religions in the grand scheme... Hinduism, Jainism, Native American, Austrailian Aborigines, African religions, etc. all believe in a cyclic universe. The very idea of reincarnation is based on recycling souls. So, IF religion was true-- I'd be more apt to believe older religions. Of course I'd have to believe in a religion first...just sayin' 😉

4

The big crunch is impossible as far as we have come to know about the nature of our universe. Heat death and infinite expansion are more likely. The only way the big crunch is possible is if the average gravitational density of all matter and energy at some point will outweigh the constant, rapid expansion. So far, the expansion of the universe is exponentially increasing and it is faster than light in some areas of deep space where there is no matter for a floppity-zillion light years.
An alternative to the big crunch is if somehow ALL matter - in the future form of singularities - can blend together into an infinitesimal space-time singularity that is unstable and erupts into another big bang: basically spawning a whole new universe within our old universe's unstable space-time fabric. Each time, kind of like recycling paper, there might be a loss of matter and energy that was too far outside the reach of this amalgam of matter.
In both cases - simply matter or both space-time and matter - would require some unknown force to bring all the mass in the universe together in the face of a hyperbolic space-time expansion that outruns even the speed of light. Perhaps future civilizations might develop technology capable of multiple artificial kugelblitz which can theoretically reverse space-time expansion by acting like a gravitational singularity. Enough of those and you might just be able to "rope in" the expanding space-time fabric like that scene where Spiderman tries to stop the boat from splitting by using a bunch of web and pulling on it with all his might.
More than likely, it's just a depressing end to our one-time universe floppity gillions of years from now as the last star flickers out of existence.
That's all I have to say about that.

True true. We don't really know what dark energy is.

3

I'm more of the mind it never really stops. We as sentient beings of limited intellectual potential are locked in what can only be perceived as linear time. "At some time" each moment still exists.

How many times have I said this already?

Anyway, now let's talk about alternate realities...

@Duke I'd like to get the three of us together sometime with some primo sativa and talk about...stuff.

Finally....where the hell were you guys when I brought this shit up in earlier.

@Nemosson Yeah, many of my posts have met the same fate. If you post at the same time as many others, or worse before, the post gets buried fast.

@Duke There is a good introduction to my art in general in my profile pix. I have a few video jewels amongst the muck of my youtube though (link). My only studio music is still in the can because my then well trained "Treasure" quit during the recording over artistic and contractual disagreements.

Since it was usually just the Treasure and me doing all our show setups we never bothered to try to record at paid performances. Here is one of my favorite of our rehearsal videos with Shae, who later left the act to pursue her first love, modeling.

Ironically, I'm simultaneously promoting my Treasures as models as well, if they're so inclined. Anyway, here is a common "show opener"...I sadly have no recordings of the 8 string guitar metal version.

@Duke I've been considering this for some time...since you're interested and I have some time today...

A Tale of Tales from the Last Inn

@Duke Thank you!!! And yes, that's a 15 string (middle) Renaissance lute, muh "Lucy". If I needed to get medieval on your assignment, I just needed to not play the lowest four strings. Musically correct, visually...no one seemed to mind.

It was a relatively easy transition from guitar. Imagine a 12 string guitar with an "odd" single high A and a G/G# bass between the low E and A. Drop the entire tuning a step or two down to a D or C bass ( I use C for ease of fingering...useful in "medieval metal" ..."Hiwayman" is in Cm) and you have a lute tuning.

3

Pretty sure this possibility, at least in the literal sense, has been ruled out under current cosmology. IE, it looks like there will be no "Big Crunch." That being said, there are models that say there are, have been, and will be an infinite number of universes. If that's the case, then yes, this may have all played out an infinite number of times and will play out an infinite number of times. I find it more incomprehesible than depressing.

@silvereyes Ruled out is overstating it I suppose, just that current thinking is that it will expand forever. That could certainly change though, cosmology is an infant science. Heck, it's only a hundred years ago we discovered ours wasn't the only galaxy.

3

It’s hard to say what the universe does on a cosmic scale. I guess we’ll see.

3

Why is it that we expect to relive anything? "Energy cannot be created nor destroyed...merely transformed from one state to another". Your are a bottle of energy, transfixed and dependent on the biomechanical engine of your body. Your spirit, sense of self, is singularly unique...but there are 7 billion others bottles.

There is no over and over. There is transformation...the actions of your life intersecting with the lives of other people...like a pebble skipping across the water...and creating ripples.

3

More like a spiral than an endless loop. Then again, there's also the Many Worlds theory too.

2

energy turns to matter then back to energy again. if it does concert to matter once again i doubt its the same form

2

If I were recreated in a perfect simulation of my current environment, complete with my memories and mental states, my clone would likely behave just like me in every way. But it's still not me. Similarity, no matter how exact, has no bearing on me here and now. I see a cycle of big bangs and crunches to be no different. But, I don't really buy into continuous personal identity from moment to moment, either, so it's especially easy to distance myself from past and future cosmic doppelgangers. 🙂

2

A very interesting idea. But like reincarnation, what difference would it make. If we go around again but can't remember this trip, is it really us?

2

We don't know.

skado Level 8 Jan 3, 2018
2

No. That is either a pipe=dream or a nightmare, depending on how you imagine it.

2

Since by the time I'd be me again I wouldn't remember past me, I really can't see such a thing bothering me then, so I don't find it bothersome to me now.

2

I should hope not... do not want to Cheeto winning an election again 😛
Joking aside, nope I do not like or think is possible..and is very depressing to me

1

The Nietzschean idea of 'eternal return or eternal recurrence' owes it origin to eastern philosophy. What do we mean by eternity? Do we mean unimaginable 'period of time' where there is no beginning and no ending? Is time a man made concept which owes it origins to seasonal variation and the movement of stars and planets? Without motion would there be any notion of time?

1

Anything is possible when it comes to theory over my head...lol. that's just to far away for me to think about.

1

I don't like it and doubt it will happen, I'm more of an entropy fan... I sure hope not and yes it is depressing as hell. If we knew in the next iteration what we know now and could make changes I'd be ok with it.

I think it is a stretch to call philosophers scientists.

1

with infinite space, there are infinite possibilities.

1

I will never be me again as I am right now. Never was before either as I am right now. I may be something else, somewhere else, in another time and era.

1

Groundhog days Universe. haha. I prefer the more optimistic big bounce explanation where time resets at the end of every big crunch.

1

The universe isn't expanding, it's moving, from where we observe from it looks like it's expanding. On a different note did you know Einstein married 2 of his cousins?

that's not clear, from earth where we observe from it looks like it's expanding, but we can't see the whole picture. All we know for sure is it's moving, and things in our limited scope of vision are moving away from each other.

0

A common belief today is that you are nothing but a physical body and that your brain generates your field of consciousness—your subjective experience, your Mind. This is just plain absurd. Even though there is no hard evidence for this, many of you eat it up and believe it without question simply because this view of reality has been told to you over and over again from the moment you were born. Did you know that your scientists have absolutely no idea how your Mind can exist? They cannot account for your subjectivity. They cannot account for your inner world. They cannot account for your Mind. Your subjectivity is what you are most familiar with; it’s what it means to be you. It’s your entire field of experience, yet your scientists have no clue how it’s possible, and they just throw out the lie that it’s somehow a product of your brain even though they cannot tell you how.

Odds are you probably didn’t know this was such a huge problem for science. That’s because this doesn’t get broadcast very often. It gets blocked out and swept away. The fallacies are just ignored in the same way that a dogmatic religious person ignores the insanity of their beliefs. Believing that the Mind, which is different from matter, somehow comes from a material brain, is just as illogical as saying that a sky god created the universe in seven days. Scientists try to defend their view by claiming that brain states correspond to mental states. This is a blatant logical fallacy as correspondence does not imply causation. All this means is that there is a correspondence or interaction between the brain and the mind, but it does NOT logically follow that the brain causes the Mind or that the brain is the Mind. Understand this crucial element: The brain and the Mind interact, but the brain and the Mind are NOT the same thing.

“[The] brain does not produce the mind… to assume that the mind is caused by the brain, due to psycho-physical correlation, is to commit the fallacy cum hoc ergo propter hoc.” – Peter Sjöstedt-H, Philosopher

In a nutshell, this means that just because two things correspond to each other, it does not mean that one causes the other to exist or that they are the same thing.

@irascible
Look at your physical body. It’s all an illusion, and death itself is one of the greatest illusions of all time. Your senses will tell you that you’re nothing but a body, and they completely miss the eternal mathematical energy waves that make up reality. You can’t trust your senses, but you can trust logic and reason which reveal the eternal mathematical code on which reality is written.
The good news is that you are not a body, but you are an immaterial Mind that simply links to a body. And your Mind is a structure composed of the same mathematical waveforms that constitute the universe, which means that you, like reality itself, are eternal. Even when your body perishes, even when the last human is gone, even when the last star has died, you will still exist as an immaterial Mind of infinite energy. Each one of us is an immaterial Mind. And all of us together, we are the universe experiencing itself. When you look beyond the illusions of the senses, the material world, and death itself, the truth of reality will be laid out before you, and you don’t need eyes to see it.

@irascible precisely why my first response referred to it being a subjective experience.

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