Yes, good old France. The French Revolution put paid to all their religious Divine Right of Kings nonsense. They are now openly secular.

Thanx

Who asked them? Are these independent figures or Chinese Govt. figures? Are we counting communist China as a civilised country? Sweet charlotte is looking to move to a more atheist friendly country, not to a communist dictatorship!

@Marionville

those are the posts from independent and the athiest republic, just what is online, and I think China likes the fact that they are Athiest, they always have been. Buddha is not a God/Deity. its what I have been trying to explain. In Buddhism I am considered a Bodhizafa, not that I practice or did. I know buddhist and have chanted with them. Its more about self enlightenment not God.

Bodhisattva is a term in Buddhism meaning an enlightened being who, out of compassion, forgoes nirvana in order to save others. Bodhi means "wakefulness"

@Etre ...I thank u for the insight

Correct and it is also top of happiness index. The others are only guessing I have read the data.

@Marionville

not Atheists, that goes to China, just looked it up.

@Marionville

[atheistrepublic.com]

[independent.co.uk]

@Etre I suppose I was reading civilised for non communist democratic countries. I still think despite communism Buddhist beliefs are still followed by most Chinese. I wouldn’t trust the data which was probably collated by the Chinese govt. Although Russia was officially an atheist country for over 70 years the Russian Orthodox Church remained strong and has been resurgent since the fall of USSR.

@Marionville

Russia was the 3rd center and became the Christian center. I forget the date. yes Russia considered to be Atheist but was run by Ashkenazim jews for a very long time, that is why law was created to protect the Ashkenazim while 100 million Russian and Polish natives were slaughtered.

I actually know buddhist people here in the states. Non are chinese. I have worked for chinese people while in school. they weren't budhist either. most who are budhist are into Martial arts because it is part of the philosophy. I spent years in academic and personal study in philosophy and consider myself a Existentialist/Taoist. Most people I have talked to who are chinese, know nothing nor can they relate to Taoism, which is a for runner and existed before Buddism. Ti chi is a Taoist martial art. Kung Fu is a Buddhist martial art. So this is why you see the relationship to the philosophies.

I am willing to bet that only a handful of Chinese State Employees are Buddhist. Buddhist beliefs are more about a way of life, a way of acting and living.

@Etre I beg to differ on the definition of religion. I think the question posed in this post was regarding civilised countries and I don’t think a communist dictatorship actually qualifies as such.You may be right technically, but I still maintain Norway has the highest proportion of nontheists in a free western democratic country.

I thought most people in China were Buddhist.

244 million are buddhist out of 1 billion. Buddha is not a God or a creator. He is a philosopher, so buddhism is a philosophy. Some believe that buddhism branched from Taoism or Lao Tzu.

@Etre It is a religion. It has monks and temples and worshippers pray and leave offerings. If it look like a duck and quacks like a duck..........!

@Marionville

Those are more for the aspect of the self, not so much in worshiping the Buddha. you can considered it a religion under the 2nd definition of religion. but they do not believe in like super beings with super powers and things of that nature. Buddism is nothing like Christianity/Catholicism/judaism.... ect..... Buddism is more about controlling the self and walking the path. In Taoism it is called "the way", you should read the Tao de Ching, Great book, short full of knowledge and wisdom...... one of my favorite. Its more about action and reciprocating action, cause and effect. Doing things in life that does cause negative effects to come back to you. Buddhism is based on the same tenants. They worship the buddha because he is the Master who left the knowledge. so the Monks, follow the religion aspect of the worship to Buddha as Master not deity, big difference......

I do understand your point and how you came to your conclusion. Read the Tao Te Ching and you will have a way better understanding to see how it is truly not a religion but more of a philosophy.

Now the monks are deeper routed in the religion, because they are waiting on the reincarnation of the Buddha. Not in the like God aspect of deity or things, Buddha was or is an enlighted being like Lao Tzu, who some believe became the Buddha.

@Etre I have travelled extensively in Asia, and I personally know Buddhists in Sri Lanka and Hong Kong, and their type of Buddhism is worlds apart from what you are describing. To you it may just be a philosophy but for them descending from generations of Buddhists it is most definitely practised as a religion.

@Marionville

sure, like I said the 2nd definition, the reincarnation of the Buddha... the enlightened being... not a God or creator of the Universe.....

@Marionville

In hinduism buddha is considered to be a god.

@Etre As a freethinker and humanist, I regard all of the above information interesting but just like all belief systems a load of bullshit...sorry. Just another form of belief for people who can’t get their head around the fact that life ends with death...no reincarnation, karma and all that nonsense.

@Marionville

its the enlighten being that is reincarnated and this comes from india were Buddism started, chinese buddhism and indian budism are different...... chinese believe buddha is the enlightened being were as indians belive buddha is reincarnated vishna I believe.

yes I agree with you...... Read the Tao Te Ching, you will totally get it. It is open mindedness at its best, "the way" the middle path..... no religion no deity. India subscribes the deity, not the chinese...... To the Indians it more of a Religion, to the Chinese its more of a philosophy, in my humble opinion. I can see where ritual can be view as religion. The Chinese Buddhist perform ritual and meditation, but that is not in belief that you are in communion with the Buddha or God, and Angels are definitely not leading you. The meditation is for the self in centering ones self with the universe.

Think of the Kung Fu show with David Carradine...... oh the masters always taught him philosophical answers to problems and questions.

Yes the inner circle of Chinese buddhism is more of a religious type worship because they are waiting on the Buddha to reincarnate..... I do not know that much about Indian Buddhism and or how they worship the Buddha. I did a research paper in College some years ago, so I am pulling off of what I remember and have experienced.

I actually forgot that Buddhism originated in India circa 350 B.C. Taoism begins around 500 B.C. in China. It is accepted by many that Lao Tzu, the founder of Taoism, became the Buddha or taught the Buddha, were as in India Gautama Buddha is the founder, which translates to Lao Tzu left China as a Sage, and in his travels spreading his wisdom either taught Gautama Buddha or became him.

just had to look up some info to clarify, Lao Tzu studied under confucius. Both are considered philosophers whose philosophy was highly accepted by the state. And yes it is believed Lao Tzu taught Gautama Buddha in India.

thank for the conversation nothing but love, I needed to clear up some of this forgotten knowledge. Please read the Tao Te Ching, you will love it..... it makes you think in a very open minded way, it does not preach to you. the Tao is written in Poetic form and is open to interpretation.

@EtreHave taken note and will make some time to read up. As I was born into a freethinking family and have never felt the need for any entity beyond myself either spiritual or theist I find the idea of these mystical philosophies fanciful. The fact than human beings are capable of reason and intellect without any need for a spiritual dimension may seem strange to you, but I have never felt the need for anything beyond my own inner strength. I think humans are amazing and we can do most things if we ju st apply ourselves.

Itelligent!! The book is not about spirit or trying to teach you spiritual, in the concept of religious concepts. Remember Taoism is a philosophy, like you have developed a philosophy for yourself. Taoism helped me to understand religion and think for myself, or I should say reading the Tao Te Ching. Kind of like reading the Art of War by Sun Tzu, which is a historical military book every general in the US army is required to read. Itelligent books for intelligent people.

The term spirit derives from the greek term psyche. Basically spirit refers to the conscious self. Our ancestors where not good at defining human consciousness, thus we get all of the metaphysical conscepts that spawned religions. In our modern times a malevolent spirit has becomes a mental illness. See the difference. Seven virtues...... love, peace, patient, ect... so when you are in love.... the spirit/consciousness of love is manifest or made manifest in the being. You are embued with the feeling that fills your emotional self. The seven deadly sins like rage, hate, lust, ect.... when you are filled with rage and kill someone the spirit/consciousness of rage was made manifest in the temple/body and controlled you.

That is how it was viewed in the past by many religions. A spiritual manifestation that controlled the being. Thus you get spirits, demons ect....

We know now our ancestors could not explain the many complexities of the human psyche/consciousness. That is why religions grew and or were created, to explain concepts to the lower conscious state of being. Thus as it has stayed in the lower conscious beings to this day, as we have grown into the higher conscious beings who possess omnipressence or cognizant of the self.

These concepts that I speak are well known. Plato spoke of the lower conscious beings and how the Gods and Goddesses were used to control human consciousness just like today with Judaism/Islam/Christianity.

The Tao is a Great Read... I will find an excerpt.. I am Artistic being and its a book of poems, but they are wise poems.

@Marionville

Human beings follow the Earth.
Earth follows Heaven
Heaven follows the Tao
The Tao follows the way things are.

@Etre Thank you, but I prefer to follow my own path without what sounds to me just another type of religion. I don’t believe there is a heaven, and can we just agree to disagree. You sound to me as fervent as any bible thumper in your Taoist beliefs, but they are not for me. I joined this site to get away from believers who try to convert or convince me of mystical nonsense, and I am afraid I consider your beliefs to be more of the same.

@Marionville

Heaven means sky
Earth means Earth

I think you are taking this all wrong, philosophy is not religion.

I look at things from a large base of knowledge.

Agnosticism is a philosophy.
Toaism is a philosophy.

I am more existential than Taoist
Existentialism is a French form of psychology and philosophy.

You have probably seen films based on existentialism and did not know.

Taoism is like Existentialism

The being experiences life/existence through circumstances forced by cause and effect.

We started this conversation about Buddism, and my quest is only to show my points not preach a sermon or try to convert you. I am not a convert .

The yin/yang symbol is from Taoism. Means the union of opposites. Night and day.

I am showing you these concepts to prove my point about the Chinese and their non belief in deity. That being centered and self cognizant is the bases of their thought.

@sweetcharlotte I read Holland is one of the most non-religious countries. India is another.,

@DUCHESSA India is very religious. Hinduism and Islam is quite present there

It is actually Norway on latest data.

@Seajay88 Hinduism is not a religion but a way of life...and my Indian friends have told me that Atheism is very popular in their country. Islam, in India, os not the same as is in Pakistan or Bangladesh.

@DUCHESSA Hinduism is a polytheistic religion.

Furthermore Islam is the same in India as it is in the Middle East. I studied Islam for years I’m quite familiar with its “interpretation”

[en.m.wikipedia.org] Yes, it’s wikipedia, but you can check the citations if you want. Or just ask a Hindi.

@Seajay88 By "Islam is not the same in India as is in Pakistan / Bangladesh" I am referring at the number of people who practice said religion in these two countries. About Hinduism...I don't think all your years of study can parallel what people who live / practice said philosophy experience / know. Trust me, I have "few" friends from India...they are Atheists and get "somewhat irritated" when people say they know more about their country than them.

Not all parts if the UK are the same. I live in Northern Ireland and I can assure you there are plenty of God botherers here, too many. In England, whether people go to church or not the majority still identify as Christian.

@Marionville But not so as you would notice.

@273kelvin Granted, but nevertheless they would not call themselves atheist.

@Marionville Only if you asked them and who would ask?

@273kelvin I think the last census figures showed this.

@sweetcharlotte As is Melania Trump. I have visited it and it is beautiful, Ljubljana the capital is very pretty. However it is a long way from Norway which is actually the country with the highest percentage who identify as not having any religion.

I don't believe that's true. THey have their own religion which involves praying to gods and ancestors.

Most people there are Buddhist.

Cold there, but it is still where I would go.

It is actually their neighbour Norway on latest data.

when i was in Sydney i say the hare krishnas come rambling thru circle quay. at least i THINK that was them jumping around banging on the tambourines and shit... never seen anything like that... looked like monkeys on acid

@SeeCanU I haven't seen them in years but they used to dance around like that.

@SeeCanU "...monkey's on acid." The imagery is sublime, thank you.

From a population standpoint 29.6% of Australians claim No Religion which makes us the biggest group. The next largest being Roman Catholic on 22%.

A bit old, as in 2013, but Australia has only 8% regular church attenders, mind you to get the number that high the definition of regular was once a month.

@SeeCanU I guess we visited Sydney together...since I saw the same...in the same circle quay. I have great memories from Australia.

@DUCHESSA yea Sydney is an awesome city...i was there in may 2011. just HAPPENED to be in the right place at the right time (on same side as Luna Park but a ways from it)...there was a heck of a firework display. but here's a pic of them..it's on the opera house side

I'd hate to think I was the only atheist in Strathpine tho. lol I must do some promotion of agnostic.com

Interesting, but it doesn't show any of our friends in Australia.

@idoubtit Hmmm... odd, ok, I'll investigate.