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The one philosophy I've been intrigued by since high school is "solipsism". It's the only one I know in which scientific rules would not apply and could not be used to discredit it. If everything is just a creation of my mind, then scientific research would have no validity. Anyway, it's fascinating to ponder. I don't believe or feel it's true, but it makes the most sense of any "non-reality" based theories. I'm guessing some people believe it to be true. However, if they totally believe it, why would they not test the laws of nature, like jump out of a building? It might be like an experience I had in my youth. I went up a chair lift with some guy I didn't know. He offered to share a joint with me. I'm not sure what was in it, but as I was skying down the hill I wasn't sure I was really skying or just in my apartment thinking I was skying.... long story. The point being, I remember thinking I better make sure I don't hit someone else or a tree, just on the off chance I really am skying. Side note, I quit smoking pot after that. Sure it might have been laced with something, but the other guy smoked it too and schizophrenia runs in my family.

Rudy1962 9 Jan 27
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If the weed is strong enough, one hit can trash you and make it difficult, if not impossible, to tell if you are asleep or awake. Sometimes sitting down for a while helps, or a few drops of iodine in water, but if you are truly trashed you may not be able to do that, and will have to ride it out.

I did have to ride it out, which is a story all in itself. I told myself that if I could just get to the bottom of the ski hill I would sit down, sort it out, and wait for my buddy to show up. As I was sitting in the snow this young kid fell in front of me. He was struggling to get up. There was no way in hell I was moving. Finally this lady came by and helped him up. She then gave me the, "you are an asshole" look. I couldn't quite tell her, "Look lady I'm too stoned to help the kid.".

@Rudy1962 I guess you could have given a groan of pain, as though you couldn't have helped the boy anyway, but why bother? Glad you're OK. I can't even imagine that happening in the middle of a ski run..Yikes! But to your original subject; I also thought about solipsism the last time I was a bit trashed, but I already believe in it anyway, as in “I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness." – Max Planck, father of quantum theory

@birdingnut I'm thinking about it and curious, but can't figure it out. What is the connection between quantum theory and solipsism? I mean I understand the "matter as derivative of consciousness" part". I guess I don't understand quantum theory

@Rudy1962 Well the famous double slit experiment showed that our thoughts create reality-photons fired at a wall through two slits would change form from waves to particles whenever they were observed, and that the electrons could even predict if the scientists were going to observe them or not, before they even did so, changing from wave patterns to particles in anticipation of being observed. We are creating our own universes.

@birdingnut Thanks. I have seen explanations of this double slit experiment before. I found it fascinating at the time. However, afterwards I asked the obvious question, "How do the scientists know what the particles are doing when they are not watching?" This explains it. If you aren't growing tired of questions, why was this experiment the start of quantum theory? Do they have theories on why an observer changes what particles/energy do? Fascinating stuff.

@Rudy1962 Don't worry. Nobody understands quantum physics because it basically says that nothing is real and things exist and don't exist at the same time, skipping in and out of our dimension, etc. Niels Bohr: "Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood it."

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Solipsism has its own infinite regression trap. Consider the brain in a vat model. Everything is an illusion. Even your body. The reality is you're a disembodied brain being fed data that you interpret as sensory input. Well who's doing that? Why? What if it's part of a stream of illusionary data being fed to him from a superior reality? Why are they doing that? And so on...
The problem with solipsism is that it doesn't lead to anything useful. Not at this phase anyways.

How could we know if we are in a simulation or not? But yeah, interesting mental masturbation, I mean philosophical conversation...

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I wonder would a conference of solipsists deteriorate from an argument into a fight about which one of them is real.

One way of expressing what Descartes meant is, “I am aware of my existence”.

Lol on the first part

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Just for the record, Solipsism does, in fact, require at least one set of physical rules to handle gravity. The word means that you think the sun revolves around yourself

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wouldn't consciousness just be a figment of its own imagination?

Whoa....

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Just because people believe in solipsism doesn't mean there still aren't consequences to your actions. Even if it was true and I was still the only being in this existence in a sense, my brain is still programmed to experience everything as if it's "real".

But if you jumped out of a ten story window and did not you die? Did not stop thinking? Did not stop creating the world you had been creating? Wouldn't that confirm it's not real, and then the individual would put all caution to the wind?

@Rudy1962 The world is still real to the individual. Whatever existence I'm in is real. I can't change the world in a physical sense. I haven't been able to change physics. I think the real question is, would I cease to exist? I'm not sure if solipsism is real. If it was, maybe it's the key to opening up a whole new world in which I can do anything. If I was wrong then I would cease to exist. That's a game of roulette most people aren't willing to play. Even if you did survive, would it just mean you couldn't kill yourself? Would it mean you couldn't die at all? Would it mean you would be a cripple? If you didn't die and then started doing whatever you wanted, like stealing or killing or whatever it was, could you be locked up in jail for the rest of your life? So even if you didn't die, the world might still be the same world without that one difference. I am not willing to take that chance lol

@Dida Why thank you (blushing)

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So, when...if I die...everyone else will just "wink out"?

Assuming everyone else was real, no, but if they're not real then they never existed to wink out. Like turning off a video game, the NPCs don't wink out of existence, and in some regards the Player Character too but you're it's consciousness so that's the best relate-able comparison, when you stop playing a game, what happens to the existence of the NPCs and that game world?

Yes. So please don't die. I don't want to "wink out"

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Have you read Descartes' deceptive demon principle? I feel that is a major root for solipsism, but have never looked into solipsism specifically, I used to be really big into the Matrix because the only thing we can be 100% certain of is that we ourselves exist, I can't even assert that you exist @Rudy1962, but I think therefore I am.

However, from that I myself could, potentially, break free and prove my reality is false but it would have no impact on you. And when you say "However, if they totally believe it, why would they not test the laws of nature, like jump out of a building?" well how can I know that what I am about to do is going to affect this reality and change the laws of nature? Our greatest enemy is ourselves and if we have constructed this all in our minds then there's no way to trick ourselves, can't use chemicals those are part of the illusion too.

Perhaps death is like waking up in a VR pod... You jump and your mind kills this reality and moves you to another one where your conscious self is wiped clean so that those universal laws are the norm; e.g. superpowers and the like, and then that raises the question, is it still you?

I'm going to have to think about all that is in your comment. I do like thinking about such things. It relaxes me. Thanks for the input

Ok now I think I understand what you were saying at the end. Say I totally believed everything is a creation of my mind, so I jumped out of the tenth floor of a building to prove it, my mind could blank that out and continue on with the reality it had formed. The reason for my mind doing that would be because the "jumping out the window and surviving" would not fit with the reality my mind made. Oh and, which I believe is true, this reality is not a creation of my mind; it is very possible someone has jumped out of a window and died because of their belief that none of this is real. Ok Dreadly, nice talking to you. Well that is if you really exist. Otherwise, it's been nice talking to myself.

Ok so dig it. I think I understand why you like it. It's a rabbit hole. @Rudy1962

@DelilahJones33 It's fun. Just have to make sure not to dig so deep you can't get out, or get bit by rabid rabbits

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As to it all being in your mind... ummmm... Careful I don't stop thinking of you or you'll disappear, right?
I am confused on one point. You write "skying" which could easily mean the smoking left you with a sense that you were flying like a bird as you skied down the hill, or equally possible, you mean skiing?

Yah. I meant skiing. I kind of screwed up my story with that one....

There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

@DreadlySmart .. and those who can't? I see what you did there.

@Rudy1962, just subtly pointing out that typos can be overlooked if you're able to extrapolate from the data provided. Skying could be a thing, idk, but once I got the rest of the information I knew what you meant.

@DreadlySmart yah. I got it

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I don't know anything about "solipsism" but I am very close with a little guy named Google so...
Also, what is this "skying" you speak of? I think perhaps the bus made you feel like you were skiing in the sky???
Either way, sounds like some good bud.

Damn it. I screwed up a word again. Very covfefe of me.

Lol@Rudy1962

@Rudy1962

@DelilahJones33 yup. The guy looks stoned. But happy. I was freaking out. That "skying", skiing sky high, can be a little hard on the nerves.

@Rudy1962 Now...you really are getting deep!

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