I agree. They need to learn from those who are winning this battle.

I've taken breaks from social media before when everything starts being so negative. It does help

Unfortunately even more fitting now

yes, I've seen this a couple "mass shootings" ago ... wow.

No, the NRA is about making money using the second amendment as a platform to do so. In a capatilist society with a bill of rights protecting gun ownership I see no problem with them protecting my rights, I am a life member. You have rights because the second amendment exists, and the government fears that. You can't really think that any government, especially the US could be fair and honest. Why would you give them your only real form of resistance willingly, or at all? From my cold, dead hands.

@jayneonacobb So, the US government is out to get you? Is that what you tell yourself to justify your obsession with guns?

@godef no, you jumped to conclusions. The government needs to be checked by it's people. Hitler took guns from his people, Stalin and Mussolini did the same. Look how that worked out for those people. The threat of government is ever present. It's held at bay here because of our rights.

@jayneonacobb Well, yeah, banning capitalism would do much more good than banning guns, but I think the AK-15 is probably unnecessary within our borders (except maybe storage for soldiers to pick up on their way overseas - but don't get me started sputtering about unethical use of our human being soldiers, etc.).

@MrLizard and girls too ...unfortunately.

@ElizabethI there's no such thing as an AK-15. There is an AK-47, an AK-78, an AR-15 an M4 and an m-16. The m-16 is the military version that has select fire. An AR-15 is a semi auto. The M4 is a short version of the M-16.

@jayneonacobb A gun is not going to stop "the government" (corporations) from poisoning your water, ruining you financially, or from passing on to law enforcement their fun 2nd hand military toys, some of which can microwave your @zz.
The "government" is not scared of you or any number of other gun fetishist brethren either singly or en masse.

@jayneonacobb I don't care now if our 'government is fair and honest'...I care about saving the lives of men women and children!

@jayneonacobb oh, stop being so anal about what is and what is not an actual real gun! It only proves my point that are are obsessed over guns. Just shoot yourself already and improve the world.

@godef real progressive. When you debate you use facts. Stop being so anal about your unwarranted feelings. Or you could fuck off to another country if you hate freedom so much. I hear north Korea is terrible every time of year.

@Qualia well, that's why it says "arms" not guns. I can legally own a working tank. Your argument is based on your emotions. The facts don't care about your feelings and they sure don't support your feelings on this matter.

@Freedompath that's not an argument. It's just your angry reaction. Bring evidence, not feelings. Your feelings don't define facts.

@jayneonacobb Please don't try to equate gun ownership with freedom. Yours is a warped mind.

@godef well, it's my right to own guns. If someone takes that right away I am not free to exercise my rights. That's still not an argument, just another false assumption on your part.

@jayneonacobb 'yea, protest to much,' my friend! And, where are your facts to support your position...the 2nd Amendment? The 2nd Amendment, was never intended to give guns to every 'Tom, Dick and Harry in this country! Read, 'the founding fathers,' not just the words in the amendment! They were reasonable people...not emotionally driven, gun nuts!

@jayneonacobb
a) You don't need guns to secure your rights. We live in a democracy. Maybe YOU should live in North Korea.
b) I'm not even talking about taking away guns, I am advocating for reasonable gun control.
c) As I stated earlier, this is not about protecting your rights, this is about you having your toys.
d) There are more deaths due to gun violence because of the ease of requiring guns than there are lives protected by it.
e) Your damn right that I get emotional when I hear about the unnecessary deaths of schoolchildren in Florida. Do you? Apparently not enough.
f) And what about their rights to attend school without the fear of being massacred? It is your sacred NRA and your selfishness that are responsible from keeping gun control advocates from accomplishing this. The blood of those Florida children are on your hands.

@jayneonacobb Pitiful non sequitur. It's despicable that kids have to die for you and like minded to have your "toys" against a threat you're powerless against. Talk about "emotional" arguments vs logic. No guns died in the latest massacre so you should be fine. o.O Too bad passing a test of reason isn't a requirement to own one.

@Freedompath the facts are the definitions of the words which were carefully selected by the framers to be used in establishing the bill of rights, particularly the second amendment. I've made the argument about 100 times on here now using the actual definition of the words as evidence.

The quote is "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." This quote does not apply in this context, considering you are the one who's feelings are their argument. Bring facts to a debate, not feelings.

@godef How dare you put those deaths on me! I am deeply saddened and appauled at that young mans actions. I feel for those victims and families. I just happen to have respect and decency enough not to build my politics on the exploitation of child murder and tragedy. You should be ashamed of your self.

Your pathetic feelings based argument is an affront to intilectual integrity and objectivity. I am capable of separating my feelings from facts. You, apparently can't tell the difference.

As far as who belongs in a communist dictatorship, your views match perfectly. I value people's rights, even your right to say the stupid shit you just did. You, on the other hand don't share the values of freedom.

We don't live in a democracy, you fool. We live in a constitutional republic.

Lastly the constitution and Bill of rights do not guarantee safety. They guarantee life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We have the second amendment to provide ourselves with security.

Don't you ever accause me, or anyone of such things again. You do not appear to be mature enough for debate. Perhaps you should not try to engage in the future.

@Qualia its not a requirement to own a gun, unless you are a member of a militia, which I am. I don't follow you on how your emotions matter against facts. You're arguing the same way Ken Ham does. Kids aren't dying for my "toys" they're dying because sick people are murdering them. Talk about a nonsequiter. If your going to argue from emotion you're only going to give yourself a heart attack. Feelings obscure reason. Your feelings completely block your ability to reason, apparently.

Here are some stats about how "bad" guns are. They are cited, they are accurate and they are peer reviewed sources. Here's a hint, guns were used defensively 80 times more than offensively in 2016. Those are the facts, not your feelings. That's how you win a debate on gun control. None of you brought accurate stats or facts. You brought a ton of feelings and picked cherries.

[gunowners.org]

@jayneonacobb if we had no feelings, we would all be barbarians...but you keep your stance! I am not moved in this case...logic and reason is where I come from! And I have studied the 'framers,' and I beg to differ! I take back 'barbarians,' we would be worse off...we would be sub-human! Barbarians had their under-evloved feelings of meaness!

@jayneonacobb Please stop deflecting with the maturity crap; it is insulting to get that from a gun nut like you. And to say you are deeply a saddened by those deaths are empty words without action; thoughts and prayers to you too, buddy.

@Freedompath 'framers' = framers of the constitution. It's the term for those who put pen to parchment in order to declare independence from the British Crown. The same men who agreed that the people need access to the most modern arms and armaments available. That is not open to debate, it is a fact. It is fact because of the carefully chosen words used in those documents. I will continue to stand on the correct and legal side of this debate.

@godef excuse me, but you are acting like a child. You just exemplified your immaturity in this thread magnificently. I'm not deflecting, I answered all of your crappy points. You're just butt hurt because you know I cut you off at the knees by calling you out. You're twice as flippant now that I've destroyed you in the debate. You supplied absolutely no evidence to support your position. Instead you chose to make bad arguments and sling insults and unfounded accusations. Sorry, ace, but you can't hold a candle to my argument. Especially given your delayed emotional development. You aren't even mature enough to apologize for your disgusting and wild accusations. You're twice my age, act it.

You havn't even countered any of my points. I joined a militia to defend people and their rights. I learned medical skills to save lives. I support peoples right to defense. What are you doing to quell this tide of senseless violence? Nothing, you're a pseudo intilectual keyboard warrior.

@jayneonacobb Gun nut apologists who won't admit the system is broken are delusional liars with blood on hands by proxy, plain and simple.

@Qualia the system is broken, but it's not the guns that are the problem. You havn't supplied a single shred of evidence to support your position. The only thing you've supplied are eronious statements based on your feelings. You blaming me for these tragedies is an affront to intilectual integrity and objectivity. You have no legs to stand on in this debated. Which is clearly evidenced by the fact that you havn't made a single argument that isn't based on your feelings.

@Qualia I make guns exclusively for people who protect your right to espouse your false and clearly wrong position. If you can't supply conclusive evidence don't try and debate. You're Ken Haming, meaning that your failed argument is the base off of your feelings. You have no right to blame me for these terrible tragedies as they were the actions of a single person. Your feelings don't matter regarding this subject.

@jayneonacobb OK, I'm not going to try to shout you down Morton Downey Jr style to win an argument. But, let me just put this in perspective; YOU are the one prepared to wage war against an imaginary enemy. Enough said.

@irascible tertorist organization? I do not think you have an understand of what constitutes terrorism. Terrorism is the use of fear and threat of violence for political gains. When was the last time the NRA attacked anyone physically in order to further a political ideaology? Never, that's when. They lobby for rights, not terrorism.

@jayneonacobb I am always looking for the humane side of life...the legal side is always debatable...

@jayneonacobb you are digging your own 'grave' here...you can't shut down your debater, because you disagree with them! You either believe in what you espouse and hold that position or you change your mind! We don't shoot people here...simply for adamantly disagreeing...even though it has happened, elsewhere! I am struck on how much you have attacked the other people here, myself included...on 'emotions,' when clearly in your response you are way beyond emotional?? You not only discount their opinions, but now you are discounting the person!! Explain please?

@jayneonacobb do you realize that you yourself, does not believe that you are free to live your life...without your gun? You said it right here! Have you given much thought as to why you feel, less happy and free without your gun? For me, that is a scary thought...your gun is your everything...even above your country and it's citizens! It's PEOPLE, not a land mass... Can't you see why we feel threatened by you...when faced with a choice between your gun and us...you will choose your gun! That is where your happiness lies!

@Freedompath And seriously, I can't believe he pulled the "maturity" card on me. "Dear Abby, I'm 14 years old but I am mature for my age...," then they go on to describe some totally screw up situation they are in. Classic.

@Freedompath once again you as making false assumptions based on your feelings. I never said I need my gun for my freedom. I said that my guns help keep my rights. Learn how facts work.

@irascible you have no evidence to support that claim. It's just slander. Terrorism is a defined term. You need to learn how facts work. Ping yourself.

@godef no, I'm prepared to defend my rights, and as much as I hate you, yours, if the need arises.

@jayneonacobb what is with you and 'feelings?' You keep bringing that up with people, I noticed. I am going to use my 78 yr history on you...you need your feelings as much as you need your facts and if you don't find that out in short order...you are not going to end up a complete person! Just keep that in your 'fact' file and check back in another
10 years!

@jayneonacobb Okay - I stand corrected to the point that I copied something without doing a full fact check. I guess the one I meant was an AR-15, but apparently there is an AK-15; a Russian model available since 2016:
[military-today.com]

edit to add: I see that I did say AR-15 in another comment I made on the same day. Maybe it was just a typo.

@Freedompath because the only arguments I've seen from my opposition are all feelings based. The fact of the matter is that the data supports my position. Feelings don't hold any weight in the matters of facts and data. In a debate your feelings disallow objectivity. Objectivity is being able to separate your feelings from the facts in order to find an objective truth. Your feelings only ever matter in your interpersonal relationships. They do not belong in academia. Debate is an academic practice, and as such requires facts and eloquence. Look at how many people blamed me for the massacre in Florida. That's a result of feelings.

@ElizabethI that weapon is not available in the US yet, as far as I know. I may be wrong on that point. The fact remains that an AK-15 has never been used in a massacre here in the US.

@Freedompath is it humane to limit ones ability to defend them selves or others? What's more humane, a bullet to the head, or being stabbed to death? Here's a hint, I've been shot and stabbed. I'd rather be shot again than stabbed again if I had to choose. You know why I'm not dead? A Remington 870 and a 1911.

You know, it occurs to me, judging from some of the hot-headed vitriol shown by @jayneonacobb in this and another thread, that at a gun control advocate, he would be precisely the type of person I would want to prevent having guns. In fact, he had shown degrees of equanimity in other posts before his eruptions, which might suggest a degree of his being bipolar if not schizophrenic, all the more reasons not to let him have guns.

Just saying...

And how much money did the health care and insurance lobbies throw at liberals to pass the shit show called the ACA?

@jayneonacobb
Alot less than the Assfucking the Health Insurance. Companies we're grabbing from them and driving some into bankruptcies..ass wipe.

@Charlene im confused, are you mad at the lobbyists, or me for making a good point? Im for universal health care, but the ACA is not well designed. It mandates that people buy something, which is illegal, and it provided to regulation against abuse of that situation.

@jayneonacobb yes the ACA wasn't great,yes It is flawed, but it was working, it Did in fact make buying health insurance affordable for millions. And yes I also believe in Single payer health insurance..The centrists in the Dem party refused to support it..then walked away from Obama and ACA.

@Charlene the centrists usually have better points than the extremists.

@jayneonacobb
Like being spineless..

@Charlene or balanced and unbiased.