No one in my youth had access to their dad’s ‘machine gun,’ cuz he didn’t have one. We knew the nuts, and would occasionally beat the shit out of them.. Most died in their 20’s from drug or alcohol related behavior, some ended up in prison ..one hung himself before high school.. Had they had access to an AR-15, with 100 round clips & body armor - and instant infamy … they’d have likely used it. Inherent to humanity, yes. As for “guns and other inanimate objects” - those we can eliminate ~

@Varn I find it quite admirable that you think it is possible to get rid of all guns.

As for the way you people treated the mentally ill and socially awkward in your youth, I find that behaviour quite barbaric.

Most people don't understand the first thing about being humane, blind ignorance is much preferred than the truth.

Guns are not and have never been the problem. New gun laws will not work in America. They need to work on improving the quality of their citizens so that their kids don't bully people in school to the extent that they hate it so much that they will kill people in them.

It's the children and by extension their parents who cause these atrocities out of their ignorance and lack of empathy. People have an abundance of sympathy but almost no empathy at all. I am the complete opposite, because I realise that sympathy is worthless, but empathy can help many people.

America needs to restore its morals and values. They need to discipline their children and stop them from bullying other children. It's so simple.

Also have a look at what Canada did when they had a big problem with gang crime. They treated their problem in a mere 10-15 years. In America it's still ongoing.

@Lancer “My people” have been fighting long and hard for realistic gun control, we lost... What’s happening now is due to ‘their people.’ It would not take the elimination of ‘all guns,’ we must start with the military assault weapons. The effort that would take is doable, extremely difficult - but doable. Reinstating our ban on assault weapons would be a start … with a constitutional amendment reflecting the increased capability of firearms and clarifying our First Amendment would be a solid second.

‘Our youth’ have been taken better care of than ‘our citizens in general.’ But no matter how much $ is spent toward teaching our youth, their desensitization from violent video games + exposure to movies depicting the same + access to high powered combat weapons = what’s become a ‘reality killing game.’

You say: “Guns are not and have never been the problem. New gun laws will not work in America. They need to work on improving the quality of their citizens so that their kids don't bully people in school to the extent that they hate it so much that they will kill people in them.” -- That’s where ‘you people’ get it wrong... That’s happened, and much has been achieved since my youth. I’ve worked with and within schools, and know. Guns are the problem - They are the mechanism of killing. Trade those AR-15’s for baseball bats and let’s see what their high score is..? As mentioned above, lacking the current level of sensitivity, in ‘my youth,’ the worst offenders would have been taken care of from within; not pretty, but effective.

You say: “America needs to restore its morals and values.” Too late. The same crowd ‘preaching that’ are now in political control of this country! They know it’s BS, too … but as long as they can continually shift the debate to ‘that,’ and away from actual gun control … more of the same.. Followed by: “They need to discipline their children and stop them from bullying other children. It's so simple.” ‘They have,’ that’s not the problem ~

@Varn Just on you point about putting money into education and expecting children to be morally and ethically competent. That is an issue. Parents, as in the people who gave birth to the children, are ultimately responsible for the morals and values of the child. Schools are full of teachers indoctrinating kids with liberal values which are causing so much destruction in the US, UK and Australia. Not to mention Europe as well.

As for the videogames desensatising kids, we could also say the same about the news. The media is a weapon used by terrorists. Just look at those car attacks, now everyone who saw them is repeating them, just look at the knife attacks, everyone who saw them is repeating them.

Again, the method of killing doesn't matter. Be it a gun, knife, car or bomb. Human beings will kill with what they have.

I am not saying that what your youth did to each other was right or wrong. I just like peaceful coexistance and to treat people with courtesy rather than engage in violence because in a real fight, there are no winners. Only the defeated and the survivor.

The problem is people, it has always been people and will always be people. There is no way around that.

If America loses it's guns then there will be tyranny. Just look at the genocide the English government inflicted on the Irish over the centuries. The english empire has committed genocide many more times than the Nazi's and yet we say the Nazi's were evil. Nevermind the English.

I just feel like we should try and fix the real problem at the source, rather than treating a symptom of it.

@Lancer [ I’d like to amend a prior statement ^ to read ‘Second Amendment,’ not First.. ]

Schools, even parents can only do so much. The liberal progression within our schools have greatly lowered the amount of bullying and disrespect in all realms. Parents, most working full time, or single, no longer have the influence they once had.

If it bleeds - it leads.. But as to mass shootings and murder within schools, I’ve not seen any vehicles inside classrooms ..driving from room to room killing anyone who moved. I’d rather some sick punk took after his peers with a knife than an AR-15 Assault Rifle…

It’s obviously complex, but whatever has supposedly been done is obviously not working. Such ‘shooters’ are criminally insane, and society appears to tolerate them until they crack ... as ‘they’re somebody’s child.’ It’s their access to killing machines that make the difference.

I doubt it was fear of forever damnation in an imaginary Hell that kept such school shootings from happening in my day - the 60’s & 70’s… It was the inability of a antisocial boy named Lyle to obtain an AR-15, 50 shell clips and body armor. That simple. What’s changed? The ability of antisocial suicidal ‘boys’ to obtain military style killing equipment, either ‘legally,’ or from their parent’s ‘legal stash.’

OK: American Politics ..202 - to achieve anything, polarized issues are fought for from their extremes. One side ‘demanding’ a total gun ban and confiscation; the other ‘demanding’ total gun freedom & proliferation. In the past, a solution would be hammered out near the middle. That no longer happens in the USA, one party has acquired such lopsided control of our government they’ve no need to compromise.

Both our citizens and our ‘evolved’ form of government are responsible. When times are good, good people let down their guard … as bad people lay awake plotting. The evil plotters appear to have won, gradually allowing court decisions that have solidified and increased their political power. The question is, how many of their children are they willing to sacrifice in order to assure the gun vote? And, how ugly will it get before the good people of this nation take it back..?

@Varn I agree with you, this is a very complex problem.

True, modern parents are working hard and sometimes kids grow up in dysfunctional families where their parents don't have much influence over them.

But here's the main problem. Whoever cares for a child before they turn 9 is ultimately in charge of the values that they learn. After 10 there is very little chance of the child learning morals and values that stay with them for their entire life.

Canada realized this and implemented a program to reduce gun violence and gang crime all in one move. Why can't the US do this. We don't need governments or senators to tell us to come together as a community and make a 1 hour sacrifice a day to be with our loved ones. It comes down to the level of the individual, which is why we still have a big problem. No body wants to put in the extra effort because they don't understand the importance of it.

People could and can always get access to guns. If I thought about it for a few seconds, I could easily hatch up a plan to acquire 2 glocks and 90 rounds of ammunition. But I am a good person who values life and wants to protect it. Which is why I would never do such a thing.

The politicians aren't in charge of legislating every part of our lives so that we can move as fast as our slowest person.

We need to create the change that we ask for. No body else will ever do it for us.

also by the sounds of it, you don't know much about guns do you? Have you ever gone shooting before? Because your use of firearms terminology is fairly inaccurate.

@Lancer [ sorry for what may appear as 'disappearing posts' - but again, lacking a 'post preview,' my combinations of punctuation placed idiotic smirking faces within this post - that I'll try again to remove them... ]

I was the ‘at home dad’ for both my children, and remember a documentary at the time proclaiming that if you ‘showed them the 2 year old - they’d show you the adult.’ I watched ‘for that,’ and actually feel it’s true; the personalities of my two have not significantly changed

What I’ve witnessed is neglect and lack of discipline from over-enrolled day care centers that can not provide either. And much of that ‘witnessing’ happened as I’d been roped into volunteering from Kindergarten up with my two.. A lack of initial and consistent discipline leaves a child incapable of self discipline … and placing them in front of a screen, which eventually leads to a mindless killing game can ‘finish them off’...

We’ve such a consumer society here in ‘America’ (or the middle portion of North America) -- that folks end up tethered to work for, not only the essentials, but the stuff they’ve been lead to believe are ‘essential.’ I appreciate the ‘Minimalist movement’ among our youngest of adults, but there’s a mighty powerful and entrenched commercial-consumer industry out there that doesn’t appear to be going anywhere.

This isn’t about you, or me, this is about the continuing slaughter of our innocent. It’s not happening anywhere else, something is very wrong, and since more - and more powerful guns have not turned it around - it’s time we move in the opposite direction. This nation has screwed itself up royal, there’s no easy fix. The time to have acted was decades ago. So give up? Ignore the carnage..? Remain “Proud to be an American” with our love of “Total Freedom”...?

...you’ve not read my posts if you doubt my ‘knowledge of guns’... Granted, I’m no gun worshiper, and am closing in on forgetting more than most will ever know ..but I’ve been there.

Where we’re at is not working; we’ve become a sick & sorry joke around the world (and as the kid whose nickname in grade school was Captain America) - a nation I can no longer take pride in claiming as my own ... that alone can bring me to tears - then anger. So - this gun owner is willing to relinquish whatever it takes to stop the hideous slaughter of our youth -- and to ‘Hell’ with anyone unwilling to do the same! If it takes the might of the citizens of the United States of America to extract the assault weapons from ‘the cold dead fingers’ of their owners - then so be it ~

@Varn

I agree with your first point on how some kids are raised insufficiently and your second on the way society is heard up to turn people into "good consumers" for the capitalist machine.

I also Agree strongly that something must be done and soon. But I realise the 2 effects that gun control will have in the US and it will result in almost complete lawlessness. Gang crime is far too high for gun control to work.

Australia didn't have that problem at the time. We were and are a small country with few gangs. But in America, if you do implement gun control measures and disarm the public. You will be killing millions of Americans and forcing millions more to fear for their lives and the lives of their loved ones.

I don't like what is happening currently with all of these shootings. However your ideal world will be wrought with bloodshed and misery for millions. That's hardly a country at all.

Before Australia relinquished our guns. We begged the government to protect us. They didn't. Our laws and sentencing periods are far too lenient. Our jails too expensive and nice to accommodate the prisoners. We are now feeding, clothing and paying for thousands of people who would tear our country apart, just so they can have a comfy life paid for at the expense of the taxpayers.

We are harassed by street gangs, run over by Islamic extremists. Our children are dying just like yours, but we have no guns. We are arrested if we try to defend ourselves.

Your country still has a chance, a small one but that's more than us. Don't look the the UK or Australia as examples to follow. You're only signing your own death warrant.

@Lancer Assault weapons in the hands of ‘citizens’ has not stopped gang violence. And ‘gun control measures’ are not ‘disarming the public.’ We could/ would start with the weapons just mentioned. But that may be the problem - the ‘all or nothing’ retretic is believed. We’re not going to ‘ban guns’ in the USA, but we’d better buyback or take back the worst offenders..

There is no ‘ideal world,’ and I’m not proposing one; I’m looking to limit or eliminate the current carnage. You ‘don’t like the shootings,’ well, it sounds like you’re safe. We’re not!

We’ve likely more wealth and resources over ..or up here. And wherever crime’s out of control, it needs to be gotten under control. If assault weapons were ‘our answer,’ then why are there places crime is still out of control? The same with all the ‘concealed carry’ opportunities … or is the goal of gun proponents that everybody, including students & teachers carry concealed handguns..?

What are is the comparison count by percentage of population of those killed by guns in Aus. as compared to the US? I assume we’re ‘still #1.’ It’s not “Islamic extremists” slaughtering our population - our puppy’s are homegrown! We’ve the most powerful military in human history to deal with Islamic extremists, and have implemented extreme protocols to counter their tactics. I never once feared for the lives my children at the hands of Islamic extremists … but one of several sick young country boys in their rural middle & high schools - you bet! How messed up is that?

The extreme irony of the paranoia over some government conspiracy is that the same party that’s gotten into power using that line ARE the kind of people who might try to pull something like that off. But that’s not going to happen; even our military would recognize the true goodwill of the majority of (confused, lazy & complacent) Americans ..and turn on the would-be oppressors. All the weaponry available to the craziest of our crazy’s stocked away in their fortified compounds can not stop our military, so if that’s who’s gonna get ‘us,’ we may as well say our prayers

@Varn I get where you are coming from and I have to say, if you're going to enact gun control. It is an ALL OR NOTHING enforcement. I'm in favor of gun control however once it starts, it won't stop. The government will take them all, it might not be in a single generation but they will get them all.

Also I am not safe. In the last 6 months alone I have almost been gang bashed and king hit by random strangers. I only just managed to escape by out running them. I still have people just as crazy in the UK as there are in the US. We all have home grown puppies unfortunately.

Personally I would encourage concealed carry and for teachers (and some extremely responsible students) to be allowed to carry handguns loaded with rubber bullets that they have to register with the schools. That way, the students are able to defend themselves. Leaving them disarmed is like saying "here, we laid them out on a platter completely defenseless so don't attack them okay?". It is completely moronic. If the enemy has a gun then why not arm yourself? You could pick up a gun from the school office every morning and check it back in every afternoon. That way you can confirm they only have rubber bullets.

I understand your point on terrorism vs psychotic people. But to be honest, there are threats everywhere.

Also yes, the ghetto's are unsafe. But good people have to live in them, if the criminals are the only ones with guns then lets just let all the poor good people die when they're robbed or worse. Who cares about the average working class family just trying to scrape by on minimum wage.

We can't solve this problem with removing the guns. We need to focus on the people, the students. They are the ones we need to save from committing these heinous acts.

f--- guns, get a grip

@markdevenish I don't need one, but here's a link for anyone who does
[midwayusa.com]

There are disagreements on what assault weapons are. Just banning the AR-15 (which is what a bunch of mass shooters have used) would be a fair enough first step.

For God's sake! (not meant literally) It was NOT Reagan-era "ban" on all assault weapons. It was the Clinton-era "Brady Bill" that got passed as, "The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act" Also, it did not "ban" assault rifles...it institution a point system wherein a semi-auto rifle could not have certain features, like a pistol grip combined with a detachable magazine and a bayonet lug. It also forbid the manufacture of detachable magazines that held more than ten rounds. The law turned out to be a complete sham. During that time, I purchased twenty and thirty round magazines (I needed twenty-round magazines for Service Rifle competitions...the twenty round magazines are used to support the rifle during the standing phase of Service Rifle competition) for my Colt H-Bar AR-15 with no trouble inasmuch as magazines of more than ten rounds already in existence were excepted from the law. Also, Chinese copies of the AK-47's appeared with thumb-hole stocks, which effectively circumvented the law relative to pistol grips. Inasmuch as bayonet lugs and pistol grips were never required for illegal shooting and the high cap magazines never disappeared from dealers shelves or at gun shows (albeit a little higher priced), the idea that somehow the Brady Law was "effective" is a ludicrous statement. As one can see, the Brady Act was enacted in 1993, had little to no effect on the murder rate from "assault weapons". [en.wikipedia.org]