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LINK Evangelical group wants gays removed from anti-lynching bill

These men are EVIL!

Liberty Counsel Chairman Mat Staver opposes including the words "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" in a federal anti-lynching bill.

HippieChick58 9 Jan 9

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Which just adds more evidence that "Thou shalt not kill" was not referring to those outside the tribe.

This is beyond belief and so we need to check. The big issue I see is that the people advocating this are well to do and are not hurting for resources. Pure arrogant, selfish and criminal, as you said, tribalism.

@JackPedigo "and so we need to check."

Check what?

@VictoriaNotes Victoria, you should know me by now, I immediately don't take things at face value. Our earlier conversation about how the media manipulates things only add to the idea of fact checking. In construction there is an adage, measure twice cut once. True historians always look to three verification's of an idea before considering them true. I am not calling anyone a liar just saying this is so egregious I want to look further.
BTW, along these same lines I do appreciate you calling me on this. In our own way we are all hypocrites and I am always looking to see where I am guilty of this.

@JackPedigo I just needed clarification on what we needed to check. I wasn't sure if you were referring to my comment or the article, which is well sourced. Matt Staver is the founder of the anti-LGBTQ hate group Liberty Counsel. This isn't the first time he and his hate organization have raised their ugly heads.

With that said, I agree we should fact-check but this group, who has been in the media often since its founding, has deep ties to other extremist religious right organizations. Many of us here, especially those involved in human rights activism, know this.

Shaver: "So far they've been unsuccessful over the many years in the past but this is a way to slip it in under a so-called anti-lynching bill, and to then to sort of circle the wagon and then go for the juggler at some time in the future."

@VictoriaNotes On closer reflection I see another communication glitch. I should have said I (I often use we or one to keep the issue general and not specific and it has gotten to be a habit). However, so much information so little time. I just don't want to let any issue polarize me until I have more information. Loyalty to one's tribe can work against our side as well as the other side. Thank you for more clarification. It is still such a shocking statement it is hard to believe that people in the 21st century still feel this way!!! Maybe I need to move to the South to get some lessons in reality.

@JackPedigo I appreciate your comment. Maybe you can take a trip to Africa, such as Uganda, and see the immense harm these evangelical extremists caused. I blogged about this in 2014 with regard to the "Religious Freedom" legislation. Liberty Counsel is one of the religious extremists' groups behind the FADA legislation (see 1st link) making it legal to discriminate against the LGBTQ community. They were also behind a nearly identical bill that was passed in Mississippi and is now law.

Liberty Counsel represented and supported American evangelical Scott Lively, author of the Anti-LGBTQ Ugandan Bill A.K.A. Kill the Gays bill. The anti-homosexuality bill also made it a crime punishable by a prison sentence for not reporting gay people.

“Fanned by Western evangelicals, homophobia has spread across the African continent voraciously in recent years, including Uganda, Zimbabwe, Malawi, Nigeria and the Democratic Republic of the Congo to the point that the European Union’s highest court last week ruled that fear of imprisonment [and death] for homosexuality in African countries is grounds for asylum in the EU.”

"Uganda is being cited—for instance by Scott Lively who takes credit and is being sued here in federal court for inciting violence against the LGBT community. He also takes credit for the work he’s done in Russia, and the former Soviet Republic. And he’s done a 50-city tour of Russia, and on his website you can see an open letter to Putin, praising him for the great work he’s doing in the worldwide fight against homosexuality. I hear Lively just applied to go back to Russia to do a victory lap, to say, “you’re doing a great job” and to inspire them to keep fighting homosexuality.

They are ecstatic that they’re achieving what they could never achieve, what they are losing, in America. They are achieving it in the global South—in Latin America, and in Africa and in Russia and the Soviet Republics. So you have this massive movement that is actually much bigger than what we’re seeing in America.

“I’ve seen 'God Loves Uganda' and American evangelical Christians come to our country and they brainwash us and they spread this message about the LGBTI community that is detrimental to our culture and our people, and we as Africans need to stand against this.”

The image below is just one example from Uganda of how this hate legislation and far-right evangelical indoctrination has impacted homosexuals.

Repeating what Shaver said: "and then go for the juggler at some time in the future."



@VictoriaNotes Victoria, wow a lot to digest and I am starting to feel humbled. I am aware of the problems you mention and aware of the direction we are going. Even the Catholic Church is looking at the developing countries to further spread their poison (and victims) because people are starting to see them for what they are in the developed countries. Unfortunately, tooo much information (which is growing by the second) and toooo little time and tooo 'few' ways we can do something tangible other than be informed and angry.

I was reading the FFRF “Freethought Today” and Sarah Heider’s speech (she is the co-founder of ex-Muslims) at the last convention [] scroll down to “Self-Assuring Deception”. *”Now, there is such a thing as born skeptics, for whom doubt is the natural state. There are also those who can manage to think without the interruptions of ego. But the vast majority of us do not fit this bill. We might like to believe that our reasoning faculties function independently, that our emotions and actions are a response to deliberate, careful reason. But that in itself is a self-assuring deception. Too often, our reason does not act as the driver, but instead plays assistant to other emotions and ego-preserving desires.

I fear that we, the people in this room in particular, are vulnerable to this kind of self-reassurance.”*
The rest is also very enlightening. My problem is I don’t want to go down that road but it is too easy to do so and I think we all need to be careful. One cannot know of all the goings on and something new should be questioned. You obviously put a lot of work into this for which I am extremely grateful. Something new to my overflowing plate. However, I have another long term concern which where will this take us?

It’s discussions as these that are both stimulating and draining.

@JackPedigo Thanks for your comment and for taking the time to read mine. I tried not to overwhelm you --- I gave you a very abridged version of the vast amount of research I have on this. It would likely make you weep and sick to your stomach if it hasn't already.

Being involved in human rights activism and advocacy can be very draining at times, and not everyone is up to the task. I do have to take breaks from time-to-time.

I appreciate those here who bring awareness, such as posts like this. I also appreciate all the work you do and support you give to organizations like FFRF.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."

~ Margaret Mead

@VictoriaNotes My stomach has been getting sick since 1994 and I know all about draining. You should see the piles of letters I have written and gotten published (this was before blogging was popular). My life was consumed with the environment/population demographics and the Seattle chapter of ZPG was one of the most active in the country. We had a very active board and some things we implemented are still in use. Due to the immigration issue and industry propaganda a valued group that was active for over 30 years crashed and a lot of our work went up in smoke. Then I took on the anti-religious movement (with Parvin's help) and have also been dedicated but my overarching passion is still morality and the environment. The biggest problem with religions is that they are pushing for more of them as a way of dominance. Denial of reality will mean everyone suffers. They are planning a 21st century crusades with nuclear weapons. What about the life and rights for the untold number of people who won't be born because we can't get our act together. That and the sixth great extinction, to me, is the ultimate morality but, to go back to our initial discussion, we are so focused on us that we fail to see our interconnectedness with the rest of the world. Everything that is happening today, the breakdown of society and governments, was talked about 20 years ago. It pains me to see it coming to fruition but I still look for ways to get involved and to change my own contribution to the global environmental malaise.
Again, thank you for giving me a chance to vent.


My observation has always caused me to think another inquisition would transpire.


What kind of people are these???? I say good; let this get out to decent, moral people and even many Christians will be appalled. Maybe this will create a big exodus from the evangelicals. Hopefully, we have reached a low point.

That is just so much wishful thinking. Not going to happen. Sorry.

@KKGator I said maybe. I am also in touch with the huge exodus already, especially among the millennials. The number of nones is at record numbers and is rising. Look into Freedom From Religion Foundation for more information. The more disgusting the ultra religious become the more people's eyes are opened.

@JackPedigo Younger people are eschewing religion, yes. However, there are still plenty of others who aren't dying off fast enough, and they're the ones holding much of the power.
I am very familiar with the FFRF. Andrew Seidel is one of my favorite people on the planet.

@KKGator So you are also aware of the increasing acceptance and presence of the non religious in politics? Things are changing but we will see if it happens fast enough to turn this sick movement around (remember the Dems. did take over the house and have a big majority.

@JackPedigo Things are NOT changing "fast enough". Human nature is still what it is.

@KKGator As a staunce believer in evolution I am aware that physical changes are the slowest and then comes cultural changes. They often only happen at a snails pace (unless motivated to go faster like with a war). I think a lot of people see what is happening as a form of war.

@JackPedigo The war has barely started. This isn't anything compared to what's coming. It all going to get SO much worse.

@KKGator I totally agree but I also see this as not just being about religion. Religion only exacerbates the bigger problem of our environmental complacency.

@JackPedigo Also true. Unless an asteroid shows up soon, we're going to be the first species solely responsible for it's own extinction.
It's the least we deserve. We suck.

@KKGator Thank you, this has been a nice, non-confrontational discussion. I think, as a species, we suck because we are still victims of our instincts. Survival and procreation are still the primary drivers. Some of us recognize that and realize we need to change to survive as a species. But, as you said, it is not happening fast enough. I feel sorry for future generations.

I offer do wonder what that ONE thing will be...what will be that one thing to challenge 'those people' to think differently? To be so willfully blind to how mean-spirited and hateful the Evangelical Right Wing can be and still call themselves members of the religion of brotherly love and forgiveness. I used to watch the show "All in the Family" growing up. It would bring up controversial and taboo subjects in a mostly comical way that was easier to digest for the American viewing public. I think it may have changed some minds or actually made people rethink the status quo and long held beliefs about their fellow humans. I believe the outcome was finding common ground. But these days I just think we're all so splintered into subsets and subcategories that we generally don't seek out people who are different from us. And so we cannot understand them.

@mojo5501 Unfortunately, all this has been discussed over and over in the population groups. Too many of us with different upbringings, cultures, languages and all striving for shrinking resources. Evolution tends toward complexity and everything is getting very complex. The governments have to deal with a base that is constantly at odds with one another and everyone is seeking power in order to get their share (some get more than their share). There are always, always real reasons for these problems. There was a book "A Green History of the World" which is now "The New Green History", []
When I joined Zero Population Growth they had a 6 minute film titled "learn the History of the world in 6 minutes". It showed population growth (accompanied by a beating heart) and linked the accompanying events. A recent book: "Overdevelopment, Overpopullation, Overshoot" [] It's viewable and not for the squeamish.


I wanted to write a comment, but I at a loss of words when confronted with such convoluted thinking.


What a coincidence!!!
I want all evangelical groups removed from the planet!!!


I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that you are either against lynching people or you aren’t. Reserving the right to lynch certain people means you aren’t.


Unbelievable. Simple unbelievable.

Ohub Level 7 Jan 9, 2019

Seems they have plans. Legal defense in the tRump era could be a sort of stand your ground.


It makes me think of Strange Fruit and the Christian fruits of the spirit and I wonder what perverse reasoning could lead these people to such a pass.

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