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Beliefs

How do you deal with a situation when people around you are full of beliefs? For example, to change a particular mindset when they associate everything to gods.

ttonka 4 Feb 22
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0

One way= weigh the truths you know and it adds up to they are well Stupid!! Spittin fact!!

1

That depends on the individual arguments they pose. It is a long process with mixed results.

If asked why I am an atheist I usually begin with "I am not superstitious because I value truth and honest.” As all religions are based on “Faith” (Belief without evidence often asserted as “Truth” in defiance of contradictory evidence). As “truth” requires evidence, to assert “Truth” without evidence is dishonest. You can also include a long list of biblical contradictions with reality and itself as not being honest.

If they use the “Atheist have no morals” argument I begin be having them assert that their moral system is defined as that which, according to their holy book, pleases their god. After they agree I teach them their bible usually starting with the story of Zephra who killed and burnt his young daughter because the smell of burning flesh pleased their god is by their definition moral, then I move onto: to please their god, it is a Christian moral duty to kill non-believers, then onto how slavery, selling their daughters as sex slaves etc. is moral as god endorsed these behaviours. there is a long long list. Evilbible.com is a fast source for those goodies. I define moral actions as those that produce the least harm. . . If they ask where you get it you explain how as a social creature we evolved the traits that best suited our species. . .etc. (long argument). .

If the use the “Atheist don’t believe in anything” assertion (one of my favourites) I respond, No, I don’t believe baseless superstitions that can not be demonstrated to have any demonstrable truth value. - - then I go on with a long long list of examples including the flying toaster, invisible pink unicorn reference etc. Then onto a lesson on the scientific method and why we need evidence to support truth claims. I added a few other 1st hand stories to support this argument.

I have used lots of other apologist arguments and answers but you get the point. Surprisingly, I occasionally run across a very literate theists and we both enjoy hours of back and forth with equal respect for each other's points as we both use well thought out demonstrable and well referenced arguments. These are few and far between. Usually they quickly run or walk at a fast rate away.

In the past I have freed several theists from their superstitious darkness. Once freed, most, not all, have thanked me repeatable as they claim their lives are richer and clearer without the fear of non-Catholics or burning in hell forever.

Sadly, for each theist I have DE-converted I have affected a greater number of theists in a much less pleasant way. From a priest that I brought to tears after demonstrating how religion does more damage then good and he was therefore not serving the good of mankind but was an agent of deceit and dishonesty that was leaving his flock more susceptible to any dishonest and destructive faith based claim. (I felt sorry for him and told him about the (Clergy project); to a “Kill the gays” Catholic I spent dozens of hours over two weeks until I found him in the corner in the fetal position; to many other theists that quickly left the debate confused and angry; to the saddest outcome of a man who, after I obliterated the pillar of the flawed logic he based his faith beliefs on, for weeks after would cower away from me and whimper like a beaten dog every time he saw I had entered the room. I really hurt him bad. My intent was simply to make sure he never bothers me again as one day while dressing (YMCA locker room) he eagerly got in my face with "Did you know Jesus is the truth and there can only be only one truth and that truth is Jesus so you have to believe in Jesus as the truth?!" I felt obligated to never again encounter his ridiculous blind assertions so I demonstrated (with models) how his assertion was not sound. There was also a funny encounter when, after being completely out-gunned, a theist just get mad and scream (over and over) “But what about the flowers!?” at me. It was fun smugly smiling at his deranged face as he gave me no opportunity to answer his question. Eventually others escorted him out of the YMCA (my usual theist hunting ground).

Many other stories and examples but this is long enough.

3

I only associate with people now who are non believers just like me ....scary but true....lol

Much less work and stress.

In a social context when I'm not hunting theists (for discussions) No interest in making friends just an exercise in debate and the occasional fun of teaching someone something new, I make a conscious effort to alienate with facts and reason (usually including a long list of examples of the damage religion does to the mind and society) to any theists so I become so toxic to them that they don't want to bother me.

In this part of the country, I don't hang with many. . . .

1

Beliefs are fine, I have plenty.

I believe that the earth revolves around the sun. What I personally experience appears to be the sun going around the earth. Looking at the evidence and explanations that have been presented me by my educators and the images I have seen from satellites and the media, I believe that the scientists explanation is more valid than my personal observation. I also believe that if I took the time to verify the scientists experiments I would come to the same conclusion.

What I do struggle with is people who have faith. "I don't have any evidence, I don't need it because I have faith" Don't even bother trying to change their mindset. Tell them you disagree and move on.

The only time you will have any interesting discussion is when someone tells you they are questioning their faith. Then don't preach, ask questions and question their faith with them. They may or may not choose to see things differently, but you should be able to end your discussion on amicable terms.

0

You can't. they need to have an open mind to appeal to logic and common sense. When they enploy faith as a defense any hope of having a discussion that makes any sense goes right out the door.

Usually, If you can demonstrate faith is a dishonest and undesirable attribute, some come around. Over half shut down and quickly run but a large minority, with time, begin to understand the real (not) value of faith. I can not describe how good it feels when you free a person from the bondage of superstition. Lots of work, lots of time, but the rewards for the ones you (un-save) are, I think well worth the effort.

2

Everyone has beliefs. All beliefs are not factual in any way. My remaining religious friends all seem to have 2 standard beliefs in which they take world events today and superimpose them into what they think their bible has taught them. I've had a lifetime of this and as I look back it has not been proven right in any way so far. It also is always changing. You cannot tell the believer that coz they won't listen.
The next group when you assume there are only 3 of them is the ex-religious group. They believe the above nonsense and also many other things that are absolutely impossible. To some Jesus may even be Aquaman's friend.
The last of these is the "all of the above and more" group where some never did have a religion but assume aliens, outer space, and distorted mind boggling nonsense is really the explanation of everything, including how we all got here.
It's OK to say that you do not know something. People, please. Stop making everything up.

2

Only way out ,is get out you can't change a mindet that is based on unreality its like that possum playing dead thing, if you turn them over - they just roll over and play dead again - Dont waste precious time and energy on stuckness.

3

Beliefs are fine, faith i have a problem with.
re religion, it is impossible to change a believer because they want to believe, evidence means nothing.

Usually but not always. I've set a few free.

@NoMagicCookie you are to be commended, we have a maybe win, a young girl, one believer among almost 30 who don't. at east she is less vocal now, but 4 years so far.

@Rugglesby Your "4 years so far" is sadly a good observation. I hope reason prevails for her. I am aware of only one that I freed who after about a year and a half returned to belief without evidence to help him cope with the many stresses in his life. I have noticed a trend that the more financially strapped, educationally restricted and emotionally encumbered a person is, the more difficult it is for them to get away and stay away from superstitious promises of, for example, a better afterlife. - - - A reason, I believe - - so many followers of churches actively campaign against higher education opportunities - - to allow their religion to maintain their hold on the largely ignorant masses.

I am rather sure I have set in motion the enlightenment process for a few more then I early noted as years later a few seek me out ant tell me of how their life was progressing. When I first met them, they were devout unquestioning Catholics, (as my area is predominantly Catholic). I actively stressed the importance to question all, even those in positions of authority and seek evidence to support fact claims.

Although I can take credit for their search for the truth, I would like to think my emphases on the importance of truth set the on the correct path as they now openly and actively question their church and the faith based assertions and ask for evidence to support the dogma they are being fed.

2

It's hard to talk people into changing their beliefs, even in the face of facts; it often turns into debates and arguments. What seem to work is Street Epistemology, The term "Street Epistemology" refers to a conversational technique introduced in 2013 by Dr. Peter. Boghossian, Assistant Professor of Philosophy at Portland State University. It is a more productive and positive alternative to debates and arguments. You may want to give it a look. [streetepistemology.com]
There are several YouTube videos on this mater.
I find it quite useful. Good luck!

I've seen that link before and it gets great reviews I think I recall the atheist experience show referenced that link (they reference very few links . I spend days listening to "The Atheist Experience." Aron Ra, Hitchens, etc. I also highly recommend watching all the "An Atheist Reads. . . ." series. Youtube Steve Shives does a great job dissecting many apologetic books and these are really worth your time if you wish to encounter apologists. AnticitizenX is a must, Truthsurge is excellent, Dr. Valerie Taricco's "Trusting Doubt" is a must watch (or read she has a book) but if you are in the mood for a "WOW! THIS IS STRONG STUFF" video, the most emotionally train ride is "evidence3. I remember listening to a podcast on "The Thinking Athiest" and one morning a guest's wife (a Christian that was beginning to doubt her faith) found that series, watched it, and when the husband (an atheist) got home, that day, she had fully recovered from her faith.

3

If at all possible, I will walk away.

And if that doesn’t work, run.

4

You can't change anyone's mind, and if you try, you will be attacked with anger and insults. It's best to just accept that their beliefs are different from yours. Let it go--unless they try to convert you. Then I would advise that you nicely but firmly disengage.

marga Level 7 Feb 22, 2018

ain't that the truth @marga

0

helicopter dick usually does the trick

2

I try to give small things that can possibly cause critical thinking.

1

We are ALL full of beliefs. That can't be the point you are trying to make. Write with greater precision.

1

I never find myself in that situation. If I did, I'd leave.

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