i completly agree with you.

thats very very singuler belief. of course people love having children and theres nothing wrong with that. its natural as it is for all life.

I asked that from the perspective of people who are insinuating that childless individuals don't know what they are missing out on. I have never wanted to have kids and I never will! I asked those questions out of pure curiosity.

"Things that aren't true for $500, Trebek."

@Xuande there are 2 ways of learning

@LeighShelton The planet will outlive us. We produce far more food than we could ever eat. Overpopulation is a lie. First worlders need to have MORE kids.

@Xuande the only correct thing you said is the planet will outlive us. you must be right and a man who has spent years flying around the earth looking at how it is changing must be wrong. im going too stick with sir david myself. so glad i never had children.

@LeighShelton Congrats on the Youtube video. These are the facts. We produce enough food to feed 10 to 11 billion people right now. Farming and agriculture will only ever get more efficient, not less. Our projected population in 2050 is around 9 billion. Yes, eventually overpopulation will be a problem. But it's not today, and it's not in the near future.

If you don't want to have kids, just say that. Stop trying to justify yourself by putting down others.

Edited to say: We use less land to produce twice as many crops as we did 30 years ago. Food isn't a problem, transport is, and we're working on it. The Earth is fine. There are bajillions of acres of wide open space. Cities are overpopulated. The Earth is not.

@Xuande It may no longer be fit for human habitation.
It may no longer be able to support any life we recognize.

But, obviously there will still be an actual planet orbiting the sun.

That sounds like something Rush Limbaugh would say.

@BufftonBeotch "the planet is dying because of too many humans" was literally the comment that started this chain.

Not reading and trying to nitpick does sound like something Rush Limbaugh would do.

@Xuande i havent got children and i didnt try and put down others. its not just a matter of food either by a long shot. many creatures are on the verge of extinction. ferrel animals are causingf havoc in many places. global warming. the life that roads kill and the habitat we take for our many buildings and fields. the sand taken by the billions of tons. the polution we kick out everywhere. the fact that none of this is changing people in general from still growing in population one bit. it doesnt really matter because we are fucked as a species because of our completly different beliefs and traditions like religion for instance. too change anything we all have too be on the same page over the whole planet and that clearly is never going too happen while humans draw breath. i feel more for all the living things we will take with us in the next and probably biggest extinction. im glad i havnt goty children because i know they can't possibly suffer. you do what you like as your going too anyway. if your not part of the solution your part of the problem. first worlders? the greedies ones? if everyone used the planet like Americans wewe would need 5 earths too support everyone. if every human helped every human and we all had one child between us and then did that again the population of the world would be a lot more possible as well as wildlife etc. only 12.5% of land can be lived on too. should i believe some young bloke from who knows where or Sir David Attenborough? i wonder.

@Xuande your right again

@BufftonBeotch your right of course the earth is a huge round rock basiically and though it like anything will be destroyed one day just like our sun it will go way past us humans easily. we won't even kill everything on earth when we eventually kill off the life we need too survive but it won't have much more than bacteria. the meek really will inherit the earth but the meek are not humans. we are a greedy cancer that just takes as a species.

@Xuande why wouldnt you repeat the truth again and again lol ?

@LeighShelton The bees are dying and will take us with them.

We are running out of antibiotics that work.

The frogs are dying.

Humans lived on the earth as just another animal for a very long time.

Then we discovered fuel and cars.

@BufftonBeotch exactly and many species including humanoids have dropped by the way side. our biggest strength is our biggest weakness. the moment we picked up weapons and put seeds in the ground was the beginning of our downfall.

@BufftonBeotch, @LeighShelton Ahhh, I see what this is. We're not arguing about the science or anything like that.

This is an argument over fatalism. Here's the difference between us:

I believe in humanity. You guys don't. That's OK.

Y'all say "we're fucked" because of our traditions, and beliefs, like those things haven't changed, grown, disappeared, reappeared and vanished again. We always evolve. We always change.

Y'all say the bees are dying and will take us with them. I say that while bees are having problems, the number of hives in the U.S. has stayed steady since 1995. We're actually near the top we've been since then. I say worldwide honeybee colonies are actually increasing at an incredible rate. Most of their losses are statistically poor bee keeper practices, though yes, it would be nice if we cut back on the pesticides.

Y'all say species have died before, including some that kinda looked like us. Yes, and so will we. We will change, as our traditions, into something not quite human, but hopefully better from an evolutionary standpoint. Our lineage will continue, and we have the potential to conquer the galaxy.

Y'all say the frogs are dying. Yes, but while we can be blamed for helping spread it, we can't really be blamed for a fungus. Frogs have been dying off since the 1970s. It hasn't exactly spelled an end for humanity yet. We've directly killed off many, many species. Frogs aren't one of them, and as we continue to reduce our carbon footprints and change our energy practices, hopefully fewer will die.

Y'all say we are running out of antibiotics that work. Yes, and in the short term that's going to lead to some unpleasantness. But I say we're working on new antibiotics, and entirely new practices that don't even involve antibiotics to fight infections. The battle between man and disease will never end, but fewer people die of plagues and bacterial infections today than ever before, and we're only going to get better at it.

I could go on and on.

It's naive thinking to believe that without humanity, Earth would be this massive paradise and it's in our moral duty to die off. There will always be an apex predator, a species that dominates the food chain. If not us, it would have been something else. We're just the only ones smart enough to do it on this scale, and reflective enough to sometimes feel bad about it.

But the only way humanity can realize its potential, change some of things that need changing, and move forward as a species (on this planet and others), is for us to have children. It doesn't matter to me personally, but the first world, including America, is already operating at a deficit or close to one. Our population growth is all coming from elsewhere. Learned people have a better shot at producing learned people, and those are the ones who are going to help us to the stars. Those are the ones contributing to humanity, the survival of our species, in the most important of ways.

@Xuande what a selfish dick like most humans

@BufftonBeotch i blocked him. i can't be arsed with his bullshit

@LeighShelton Good. Arrogant little self righteous prick.

@BufftonBeotch exactly xx

@LeighShelton Toxic levels of white privilege in denial mode eleventy.

@BufftonBeotch indeed he was verging on being a nazzi. i come on here to get away from people like him.

@Allamanda Yeah, the silly estimate that a kid costs a million dollars to raise probably depends on providing iPhones and dance classes. I have no idea how they got those numbers.

@Allamanda well I won't set a figure but food, clothing, activities, gas, COLLEGE... And I just checked what a year would cost at the law school I went to including personal expenses and the scary number is $77,000, for one year. Tuition has increased 8x since I was there. However, on the good side for having kids there is a the slave labor and someone to take care of you when you're old.

@Allamanda no matter how you slice it or what circumstance, they cost money. Take away the scholarships and the student loans... You chose to limit their interaction with other kids and on and on. There are different socioeconomic factors for everyone but there's still clothes and food and activities, the amount is the only difference. The size and shape of the box are the only differences

@Allamanda my original point, kids cost money.

@Steve_092059 as I said later in the posts...

@Steve_092059 money won't matter on your death bed. In fact nothing matters anymore when you are dying. But money matters regardless of how difficult it is to accept that sometimes!

@Allamanda raising kids is not expensive?! Maybe if you live in the middle of nowhere, don't send your kids to college, etc.

@Steve_092059 Funnily enough there are more worthless (read abusive) parents out there than people acknowledge. And having kids does not guarantee one will not die alone on their deathbed. And that is a rather selfish reason to have kids in the first place! I don't wanna die alone and have someone to take care of me when I am old and sick. Dafuq. :/

why do you want so many kids? What can you get from 4 kids that you could not get from 3 kids? I am curious. Or is it more, you love babies and caring for them?

@demifeministgal I love having a big family and I love being a mom. The more the merrier, as I see it.

It's less about genes. I mean, I wish I hadn't passed on my allergies to half the known things in existence to my kids, but while kids aren't blank tablets they are yours to help guide.

Now, of course you can do that through adoption. Problem is, it's hard to adopt. Really hard. There's also this myth that there are tons of children just waiting for good parents to come scoop em.

There are, but none of them are babies. There are waiting lists longer than a CVS receipt for infants. The majority of kids waiting for adoption are older than that. They come with problems you know nothing about, issues you'll have to suss out, and no frame of reference in which to do so. It's much harder, or so I imagine.

I'm not gonna knock it, but I have enough trouble trying to be a good dad to my own sentient crotch fruit.

But adopt or make your own, we do need more intelligent people to have children, in my opinion. The reasons are clear.

@Xuande oh yes I am aware that those waiting for adoption, particularily in north america, are older kids and teens. It is actually kinda sad that any POS can easily breed and fck up their own crotch fruit, yet the process of adopting an unwanted child by a loving person is so difficult. In any case, I will leave that up to the kid-loving to take care of. I know that were I to try to breed, the pregnancy would be brutal for my existing health conditions and I'd wager I would resent the lil thing for causing me so much grief and added stress over the course of 9 months. Plus low pain tolerance so fck birth. lol

Though I will still do my part via taxes and voting for child-friendly politicians and policies to help other parents and families.

@demifeministgal It is stating the obvious to say you have to live your own life. I would not dream of making people have children, and I respect that decision highly, even if I disagree with some of the reasons that people choose not to have children.

I wish many people in my generation felt differently, but I can't change that. Que sera sera.

@demifeministgal no doubt. However, it is no shame to wish to pass on your DNA. It's a roundabout way of being remembered for longer.

The immigrants coming in can't be counted on as our sole future. I think we're going to keep going around in this same circle, so let me just say that I appreciate that we've remained super civil despite both seeming to be passionate about the issue. Thank you.

@Xuande I'd say it is better to be remembered for something profound and something one has achieved or accomplished (ie einstein, Newton, marie curie, nelson mandela, ghandhi, etc.) than it is to have progeny. After many generations, unless one does an extensive genealogy, you are forgotten. But the likes of Einstein and Newton and the others are yet to be forgotten, kids or no kids.

@demifeministgal yes of course, however, how many have that fate awaiting them? You speak of the exceptions, not the rule. And yes, we're forgotten, all of us. Blood ties die and soon even our blood is just a forgotten grain of dust. But we do what we can.