Agnostic.com

35 5

Religion and tradition repressed people and kept them stupid. Science and freedom of movement are giving us the abilities to actually destroy the ability to live on earth. Is religion really morally worse?Thoughts?

For context I am an opinionated athiest. I believe climate change and other environmental problems are caused by humans and are so bad its hard to wrap my head around.
I've been on here awhile and I'm just looking for a less tired science vs atheism conversation.

MsAl 8 May 12
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

35 comments (26 - 35)

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

1

I think to be fair both science and religion have produced some positives and most of the negatives in both seem driven by the same type of short sighted greed. Science and religion are both tools, which are only as constructive or destructive as the person using them. Obviously science has created a lot more objective relevance and consistent outward progress, not equating the value of the two. But as far as how dangerous each can be it’s entirely on the person wielding it to their purpose.

1

Planets are overrated. For the same amount of mass as what comprises the earth, we could have millions of times more living space and energy availability if we took all the planets apart and built space habitats.

Science is superior to religion because it grants both the ability to destroy the world, but also the ability to save the world. Morality has nothing to do with it, science is not a moral framework. I would double down on science if I were calling the shots, because I can't see any reason why the same institution that you think is destroying the planet can't also save it, and possibly even be profitable.

Consider this: suppose some way to hijack the carbon cycle and take CO2 and methane directly out of the atmosphere and utilize it for commercial purpose, turning it into plastic or hydrocarbons, or through genetically enhanced algae turns it into sugar or bio diesel. These projects and others are already underway, and I believe that not only can they reverse climate change, but they can potentially provide the kinds of controls necessary for complete control over the weather of this world, as well as enhance rather than restrict the goods and services available to the average consumer.

You could also go back to religion and pray that things get better and everything fixes itself.

We can just move to space is not a viable answer. If that happened it would not involve moving the population to a safer place. It would be a very few lucky or. extremely wealthy individuals. It would most likely not be anyone you know.

The amount of energy and work and death it would take to build sufficient habitat or make another planet livable would be millions of times more than even the most extreme measures to keep the planet livable. Plus the tremendous amount of energy that would have to use to get the people there. That's a "preserving the human race" effort though. Not for preventing mass extinction and suffering.

I would be more interested in making changes here so my great grand kids or mabey my actual kids or me don't starve to death in fear during climate disaster fueled wars.

We do have promising technologies like the ones you mentioned. I hope they can become mainstream in time to do some of the damage we have done. There are very powerful entities fighting to keep things how they are and unregulated

@MsAl The amount of energy produced by the sun that escapes into space unused is enormous. We only use a tiny fraction of that energy for what we do. Resources are not the problem, its the underutilization of those resources that concerns me the most.

I don't think humans as you understand them have very much time left, maybe only a few hundred years. In theory, your mind can exist external to your body. If you can simulate a human mind at or near the Landauer limit, you could simulate a million human minds with the same power as a light bulb on earth's surface. Now imagine how many minds you could have if you surounded a star with that kind of processing capability.

When I talk about moving people to space, I'm not talking about about physical people, thats silly. I'm talking about the type of thing that transends the need for a human body that eats and breaths. The human form is adapted for a world that was destroyed by our hand, so by our hand we must change our form to adapt ourselves for a world we created.

0

False comparison, its not science which has caused these issues, by our society and its capitalist over socialist values. If we value the product of our people (GDP) more than we value the People themselves (socialist policies to ensure health and wellness of the people) then we get what we have, production for profit with little or no eye to the effect on society, environment, or health.

0

Religion and tradition, IMO, haven’t repressed people and kept them stupid. People are plenty capable of doing that for themselves. And I’d be reluctant to blame science for what is really a genetic moral failing of our species.

Our only sin is being spectacularly successful as a species. Speaking of “Science” and “Religion” as forces to be reckoned with, almost personifies these human mental products into external abstractions, at minimum, or ghost-like beings with agency, at the extreme end.

But they are internal. They are emergent properties of Homo sapiens. They are two things we actually do pretty well, and have, so far, contributed to our survival.

The problem is not which one of our psychological adaptations is going to destroy us, but whether we can wake up fast enough to realize that it’s our entire nature that is destroying us, and, that devising an intervention for such an evolutionary-scale phenomenon will present a supreme challenge for our kind.

skado Level 9 Oct 31, 2019
0

If religion wasn't retarding Logic and Reason, science would have dealt with Climate Change about 20 years ago. And profit would have been made whist doing it.

I really think it is financial intersests and human drive to do more stuff not religion. We got to good at it.

0

Theism teaches that we are fallen from a higher state.

Erasing that teaching from our minds requires more than merely quitting theism.

Your saying we are doing badly says you have not yet erased that teaching.

When you have erased it, you will say what we are capable of doing without implying it is better.

0

I have yet to see any evidence that we can destroy the ability to live on earth. Yes, religion is worse, as it prevents us from fixing any problems we may encounter.

0

Just to be really picky...
If you BELIEVE in global warming you already started wrong, because you are saying that it is an option or a belief.
I accept the evidences that shows climate change is real and mankind has a significant role on that. Or at least I believe in the scientific consensus that says....

I know "i believe" is just an informal and fast way to say it but it opens for the consiprationalists to put their bull to produce...

Yes but I didnt say I believe in I said I believe that. There is a difference. I wasn't saying what is real I was saying where my personal position is on the subject.

0

It seems to me there is more struggling to find belonging and goodness. Too many pieces of our social order has been tossed up in the air and must be sorted out. Religion keeps people thinking too narrowly and that hampers personal growth. Atheist have no less moral and ethical behavior than Christians, if fact a lot of Christians that I have known seem to twist their unethical behavior into something acceptable, much more than non-believers.

0

science isn't causing us to do what we're able to do. we could've ended humanity in the stone age by just setting each other on fire. we can just do it faster and better now. the planet would survive -- but it would be uninhabitable by humans and a hell of a lot of other species (more if we destroyed ourselves faster, fewer if we took our time and destroyed them first). freedom of movement is just freedom of fast movement; we moved out of africa and we never did stop moving. religion is the arbiter of morality; ethicality is the purview of the secular, and i will not talk about morals as a good thing. i talk about ethics as a good thing. religion and ethics often clash. living in a fantasy world has its own intrinsic problems, whether religion or mental illness is the cause.

so is your question about whether religion is worse than climate change? apples and oranges. or are you asking whether religion is worse than science and freedom of movement? yes, of course it is. science is good. freedom of movement is good. we can control what we do with our knowledge and abilities. whether we WILL control them is another story.

g

Morality is probably the wrong word and You are right, I probably shouldn't compare them directly. I guess I'm just looking to discuss something outside the "religion is evil and science is fact" discussions. It doesn't represent the complicated reality.

@MsAl science isn't fact. science is exploration of fact. comparing religion and science is like comparing having two working eyes and buying tainted lettuce. there is a connection: one can use one's eyes to notice that the lettuce is tainted. otherwise, it's not actually a battle between those two things, and most people who mention religion and science in the same breath are being pretty specific about the connection. there is no need to struggle to get past that conversation. just open a new one -- but if you're using the same old elements, it won't be that new, and (as in this case) it also won't make much sense.

g

Wow guess so. I'll make sure and word it differently next time.

@F-IM-Forty i did not borrow it. it came from my sleepy brain. you may borrow it as long as you don't claim it lol

g

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:345393
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.