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Toxic Masculinity, they don't learn it at home.

I raised my two boys to be respectful. I believed them to be good kids. They have a sister they respect if they want to go on breathing. Everyone adored Gran. Just a regular family. It got back to me that one of my boys did something not only sexist, but deliberately cruel. It is so at odds with the boy I raised I was gobsmacked. Their father respected me, the rare quiet quarrel was just between us. There was no yelling and no physical fighting. Where did it come from?

ForTheBirds 6 Mar 9
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22 comments

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11

There can sometimes be a herd mentality in male friend circles, that's all I got.

8

I expect that it was cultural in origin. In my experience as a school teacher boys in puberty tend to here together and become a law unto themselves. With patience and love they do come out of it. I think that when that are together they tend to act and react without thinking.

8

It came from community and civic leaders, like our dear old president, the king of the misogynistic douche bags, promoting an environment where toxic masculinity is rewarded and encouraged. Leadership matters.

7

I'm guessing he's fairly young, probably a teenager, and, if so, he's probably trying to "fit in" with other lads his age. Sadly, very few boys are lucky enough to have a parent like you who teaches them about respect, so a lot of those lads aren't going to know what he knows (they'll have learned all they know about interacting with females from TV, pop music and male adults who also didn't have a parent like you) - and I think he does know, deep down, that sexism and disrespectful behaviour towards women is wrong. Peer pressure and the desire to become part of the herd are immensely powerful things when you're a teenager. I don't think you should blame him. Just tell him why you feel disappointed and ask him how he'd feel if a man treated you or his sister like that; my guess is he's a good enough person that he'll feel awful about what he did and never do it again. Hopefully, he'll also resolve to stand up to it and tell other boys why sexism is wrong in future too.

Jnei Level 8 Mar 9, 2018

Great reply, truly insightful, logical... if only do overs were real.

6

I believe they do learn it at home (not yours), at school, at work in old movies. Often times it begins innocently with the boys will be boys excuse, macho crap, being told by peers, "girls like a take charge guy". Seeing bullies getting away with it, immaturity, insecurity... parents assuming, instead of teaching.

Tomas Level 7 Mar 9, 2018
6

Peer influence perhaps?

4

Depends on how old he is and what he did. A lot of people attribute to malice things that can be much more easily attributed to ignorance or thoughtlessness.

4

Lots of possibilities, as has already been said here, but what is centrally important is this behavior being challenged. Whether by you or whomever else he will listen to he must, at the very least, take in the information that this is unacceptable. I hope it's not more difficult because he is an adult. And since he is your son don't forget the love part. I hope he will listen to someone. Good luck and peace.

4

Who knows as you can only guide them

Each is only responsible for their own actions.

it's true, especially after you, grow up

Yep, I’m going through a lot of difficulties with my 17 year old daughter. You guide them the best you can but ultimately, they make their own decisions.

3

Peers. And his president as a role model.

3

I'm not sure of the ages so it kind of comes from a lot of places..First guess is politics and politicians and wanna be orange autocrats. Then religion. Its all based on violence and asserting power. Other kids, who are probably the cruelest creatures. If they're older than school ages(even college) this is replaced by co-workers who never learned to be respectful. Could be a lack of discipline, or other family influences you aren't aware of. It could also be biological or neurological. younger kids do things that are cruel and confusing because of a lack of logical and empathetic developments. Even older folks might not have these fully developed and have issues dealing with emotional or mental issues. This is not a "boys will be boys" excuse, but rather that because those pathways aren't developed, both empathy and discipline as well as awareness and appropriate responses are needed. It might not have "come from" anywhere specific, but it is something that needs to be fixed.

The girl he married in Germany is a goose stepping Nazi that does not want children. They seem to enjoy punishing each other. I stay WAY out of it.

2

Social structure. Kids are desperate to fit in with their peers, to appear strong and alpha. I did terrible things to people when trying to fit in. I bullied others, because I was desperate to feel part of a group. It was something I deeply regret, but it helped me understand pack mentality. "Those who show weakness will be left behind" in a group of people raised on "boys will be boys" and "suck it up and be a man. Grow some balls" even the most morally righteous can bend, even subconciously. The best thing you can do is remind him who he is and how he was raised. Explain to him how it hurts you to see this behavior. Make him know that he is better than that.

2

After about 10 or 11 years old, later for some, kids start emulating their peers more than their parents. My son had a moment like that when he was 11 or 12. His older (13 months older) sister informed me that I needed to kick his butt and why.

JimG Level 8 Mar 9, 2018

That is why I am a firm believer in homeschooling...get the kid away from the adolescent peer group mob inasmuch as it shaped by the least common denominator.

2

My son got religion. I got nothing to help you.

My condolences.

1

Society. Their peers? I'm sorry for the impact on you. Your story doesn't say how old they are so I don't know whether broaching the subject is a reasonable suggestion. But among other things, one possibility is that the story that got to you is not entirely or maybe not at all true.

1

My father was an arsehole. Cruel, sadistic, wife basher, child basher. My youngest brother and I both have kids, awesome kids and there has never been any violence in either home. So there is a lot more that comes into it than how they were raised. It is all complex. My father was spoilt, youngest of 7 and never hit as a kid, his own father was a true gentleman.

1

A combination of peer pressure, need to be accepted by them, and testerone

1

How old is he, if I may ask.

When the incident happened, he was 17, and the way he went about dumping girl#1, and his rubbing her nose on girl#2 got back to me from an unquestionable source. He is now 38 and married a girl serving in the Army in Germany 15 years ago. She is Chezk and he must be the most pussy whipped man in FL. 15 years and no grandchildren.

That’s a tough age and is partly why I asked. Hopefully he learned from it. @ForTheBirds

0

I'm a little confused ,You spoke of the boys you raised , then go on to say . "Their father" . Are you talking about the father of the person your son had the confrontation with ?

Their father and I divorced many years ago. My son was stationed in Germany at the time. He was disinterested in the kids. Not a toxic father. Just a not present father.

0

You left out the part just before he reacted. What provoked him? Maybe he was right.

0

Being faily old and have been a keen observer of humans, as my experiance and observations grew, the less I believed that personality was the result of nurture (upbringing/values instilled by parents, etc.), but that some/most people seemed to have been born (genetic pickup sticks), with their individual personalities. It would seem to explain the difference between siblings and a real rotten egg coming from a really good mother and father. It has also been my experiance that the more vigoursly a parent responds to a transgression the more it is likely to change future behavior...especially if the parent responds that way in only a rare occasion.

0

It comes from watching porn, which boys are doing younger and younger, and more and more often. About 80% of the mainstream porn available to boys is demeaning and degrading to women, and this distorts the boys' views of women, and sex in general. Find out how much porn he is watching, and get him some help. Video games and music videos are also notoriously mysogynist, influenced by porn.

I think that’s too narrow of an explanation. There’s plenty of sexism even without watching porn.

@Marcie1974 I concur, cannot blindly pin it on one topic or subject as humans are very complex beings with many influences and daily interactions.

Interestingly, current research points to the opposite. [researchgate.net]

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