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I consider the question, "Is there a God?" is much like the question about which came first, the chicken or the egg. No one I know, really knows the answer, they have many opinions. Opinion usually based on early programing by parents, and influenced by our culture.
I've done extensive studying on the world religions and basically they same the same thing, only in different forms of rules and control.
When I think of spirituality, I think of indigenous peoples. Such as Native American or Aboriginals of Australia. Both those groups seemed more concerned about the community, rather than the individual, with a strong sense of protecting the land where they lived. I was fascinated watching as an Aboriginal identified a tree that had a gurb living in the root system. He would then carefull scoop the soil around the root, then cut the spot before and after where he had identified the grug. Then very carefully he would push the soil back around the root. His explanation was they wanted the tree or bush to continue to thrive so that it might host another grub in the future.
Another interesting thing about their lives, is simply being involved in the moment, not aspiring something more than what they had.

BonnieJean 3 Mar 12

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Nice to "meet" you BonnieJean'

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It is true that the existence of god cannot be proven or disproven. However, there are several lines of reasoning that, when strictly considered, may take you to the conclusion that there is no such a thing as god. I like a phrase I learned in this site: I am god, and I know that because every time I thought I was talking to god it turns out I was just talking to myself. But your post is not about the existence of god but instead it is about the existence of the spiritual. And the example of the way Native Americans or Australian Aboriginals see the world is an excellent one. I do admire their connection with the earth and their embrace of the here and now. I personally prefer to refer to my relationship with nature as one of respect, oneness, and admiration, so as to not to get to close to the idea of the supernatural, which may take us to the irrational. I really would like to know your opinion on this comment. Thank you.

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I do like a good omelette.

JK666 Level 7 Mar 12, 2018
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Actually, the egg came first since reptiles, which lead to birds, also laid eggs. The Origin of God is a bit equivalent to, What existed before the "Big Bang"? Both are seemingly non-explorable.

@Shellbell
Funny! "Young Sheldon"? Who is that?

@Shellbell
OK....THAT WAS FUNNY! I need to check it out.

I have watched some Big Bang Theory, but it hits a little close to home, if you know what I mean.

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@BonnieJean -- Not opinion. There is an answer to the chicken or egg first question. Chickens evolved from non-chickens through small changes caused by the mixing of male and female DNA or by mutations to the DNA. These changes and mutations only have an effect at the point where a new zygote is created. That is, two non-chickens mated and the DNA in their new zygote contained the necessary mutation(s) to the embryonic body plan to make the first true chicken. That one zygote cell then divided and formed a biologically modern chicken.

Prior to that first true chicken zygote, there were only non-chickens. The zygote cell is the only place where DNA mutations could produce a new animal, and the zygote cell is housed in the egg. So, the egg must have come first.

Now, for the other question, "Is there a god or gods?", the answer is approaching with each coming day. All the gaps, the only places where a god or gods can be slipped in, are narrowing and disappearing steadily as scientific study of our Universe goes on and it is conceivable that one day there will no longer be any room for a god or gods. In the meantime, there is no definitive answer. Have a little patience. The notion of gods will be forced to die one day in the future.

To satisfy my curiosity, where might I find your books?

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The chicken and egg thing is only a conundrum if you're an evolution denying creationist.

If you believe in evolution, then of course eggs (in some form or another) existed before life even crawled out of the oceans. If, however, you believe that about 12,000 years ago, God said "Let there be chickens" and there were chickens, then did God create a chicken that laid the first egg, or did he create an egg that hatched the first chicken?

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I enjoyed reading your comment. I have always felt that we cannont know about "God." We can only know its manifestation (assuming there is some huge intelligence that propogated all of this). To recognize the intricate, vast, interactive systems of the Universe and even our own biological make-up should be mind boggling. (This was spoken of by my teachers and fellow students of Anatomy and Physiology.) Because I was never a prisoner to religious thought I am free to speculate about a Supreme Intelligence. I am not locked in to mainstream religious defintions from which to rebel. So I am an Agnostic - not an Athiest. I prefer to exist not knowing but not replacing a negative belief for religious icons. I also believe that accepting a state of not-knowing has a good influence on my thinking, in general. It leaves me open to examine all sorts of things that some of our athiestic friends would frown upon. I also believe that not-knowing, instead of knowing there is no God, is better for science and medicine and all important areas of our society. Recognizing the unknown always keeps acquiring huge amounts of knowledge in perspective. A good barometer is Nature. (I teach singing according to nature. It works where other teachers fail.) We can never know nature down to every detail but what we do know can guide our thinking to be on the right path. Beware of those "scientists" who stray away from nature or who think they can duplicate Nature.

@atheist That's the point. I can't be sure that many things don't exist. I don't have to.

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There is a much better question, "Do any of the alleged revelation appear to from an intelligence beyond man?"

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The egg developed millions of years earlier on the evolutionary scale than did chickens. Reptiles laid eggs and chickens evolved from reptiles. So the egg came first on an evolutionary scale...just to clear that one up.

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There is no credible evidence that a god exists...ergo..no god.

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Seeing that in many opinion the modern bird is an ancestor to dinosaurs, that of the chicken being Trex the answer is simple. In the animal kingdom DNA can trace back. The imagnition of humans has no lineage just speculation .

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The chicken and the egg developed together - neither came 1st

gater Level 7 Mar 12, 2018
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Not to pick apart your argument, the sentiment is nice--but whether or not there is a god or gods is not an opinion. Yes, our culture and experiences shape our views, but they do not shape facts. A fact is a fact is a fact. There is no evidence for a god or gods, so logic would suggest there isn't one. Being unable to prove there isn't a god or gods, is not proof for a god or gods--because the burden of evidence is on the one making the outrageous claim. We can't falsify something that has no basis, evidence, or way to even test a hypothesis.

Mea Level 7 Mar 12, 2018

I agree. Well said.

The only reason I pointed that out is because there seems to be a common misconception that being unable to disprove something (such as a god) means that there is a possibility that it exists--which is wrong.
Using that logic I could claim that there is an invisible, flying, unicorn in the room that only I can see. You can't prove that there isn't, but common sense and the lack of evidence should tell you there isn't.

There is no evidence that one can see. There may be evidence beyond one's scope. It is impossible for any human being to see all or to know all. Therefore, from my point of view, proof about God or no God is impossible.

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As for the chicken and egg, it has to start with the egg. It originated from one life form and evolved over time into another life form and it could only do that by means of reproduction and rebirth. IMHO

But which came first, the proto-chicken or the proto-egg? 😀

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