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LINK Alabama governor signs law allowing church to have its own police force

GTFOH!!! God appointed and approved? This could become a modern day inquisition. Soon there will be people executed for heresy! Where's that thing known as faith?

IAJO163 7 June 21

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7

New on TNT! Law and Order: Presbyterian Unit

Hilarious! Good one! Who would star?

@IAJO163 not sure, but I think Dana Carvey should make a couple cameos

6

This will get its own reality show on Fox Network within a year -- Christ Cops. They combat sin with the power of prayer... and guns.

Cuz prayer doesn't always work.

Or ever.

I have to say if I was a child in a school and a dude with a gun was telling me I had to believe in Jesus, I probably would. lol

@greyeyed123 That would be in keeping with the Christ Cops motto: "Believe...or else."

5

Nope I'm done. That's it. I'm calling Elon right now. I want to be on the first BFR to Mars.

5

"... the law could give the church the ability to not report criminal activity that occurs on its property."

Hmmm

Yes, that passage is what gave me particular pause. Otherwise, there's nothing all that strange about the story. Plenty of urban universities have their own dedicated police force, but they aren't independent of state authority.

@vertrauen It is illegal for a church to have a police force. It's a violation of the separation of church and state. (It's like saying there is nothing wrong with a church having its own mayor, traffic laws, and diplomats.)

Remember this problem with the Rajneeshees? (That "only problem" is actually the biggest problem of all, and the reason for the separation of church and state.)

@greyeyed123 I'd be curious to know whether, say, the Yale police force and the University of Cincinnati police force are subject to university administration or merely part of the municipal organization of the police with a particular branch dedicated to the university. I always found it weird, quite apart from the church-state issue raised here. But if private and public universities can have a police force, a church with an academic campus could plausibly be entitled to one. But again ... Who administers these? It should be under the state, not the church or university. The ambiguity about reporting noted above is alarming.

@vertrauen There are differences. A university is not a church. It's no different than a police force dedicated to a town. A church can have a private security force, but giving them all the authority of police while being run by the church is illegal. It's not even a close call.

@greyeyed123 This church has an academic campus with 2000 students. I think a dedicated police force for a school this small is absurd anyway, but what about, say, the University of Notre Dame? The constitutional issue is who controls the police, not where they operate.

@vertrauen Sure. And a private security force would be under the church's control. The article itself says the new law would give the church's police all the power of police. That's blatantly illegal.

"The University of Notre Dame Police Department, located in Hammes Mowbray Hall, just east of the Power Plant, is fully authorized as a police agency by the State of Indiana. "

Five second google search. (They are state police.)

@greyeyed123 We don't disagree. What I'm getting at is that there's a twofold problem that has been solved correctly in most states. My gut told me that Alabama probably already had a secular precedent for this weirdness. Sure enough - the law is just adding the church/academy to an existing list of educational institutions permitted to hire police officers for their grounds. These police have all police powers but are hired by private entities. Yes, the church-state issue is quite relevant. The church administration of police powers is unacceptable. But private police that aren't part of the state system is also unacceptable, whether church or secular. [npr.org]

@vertrauen I would say "private police" is an oxymoron. They could have private security like any other company, building, person, school, etc., they just have to pay for it and that private security is still subject to the law and the real police. (This reminds me of years ago when I worked for a large retailer. The store director made it a point to tell us one day that if something is against the law, we cannot do it. I thought that was the most ridiculous thing I'd ever heard, but no one in the room reacted as if it was a strange comment at all. When you are caught up in a small organization with all kinds of routines and minor rules, people tend to forget that there is any other outside authority.)

@greyeyed123 It's an oxymoron now, but isn't in the broad sweep of history. And what we're seeing here risks slipping back into a medieval fragmentation of legal authority.

@vertrauen With all the hysteria over "Sharia Law" in America, it is no wonder. People are being fed nonsense, so they think they can just make up their own laws and rules because they think someone else is doing it also. (Many even think Jesus gave America the constitution.)

4

This is scary especially for women. Hand Maids Tale.

4

Supreme Court has to take this down presumably?

3

Aren't churches places where crimes are not committed?
Oh, wait, I forgot about the Roman Catholic priest sex abuse scandal.

Don't forget about the inquisition.😉

3

My Northern California hometown attracted an evangelical Christian church that built a huge church campus and a college, and they are now paying for a city cop’s salary and have a seat on the city government. It’s awful.

UUNJ Level 8 June 21, 2019
3

This is so bad its funny. I mean scary funny. You know those Alabamans , they got their hate down. Blacks, Jews, Catholics, Immigrants, Gays. SECULAR HUMANIST OH MY. The christian PO PO gonna get you. Avoid Alabama at all costs. Mississippi too.

It’s hard to avoid since I was born here.

Are you absolutely sure that North Carolina is any better?

@WilliamFleming yes Raleigh and Charlotte and Adheville are much better.

3

Knights Templar 😬

We could form an assassin's creed of our own,eh?

3

Alabama is part of a different world...and it is not a good one.

@KITDFOHS From May's polling, it looks as if Alabama is still the reddest of the red states. Shouldn't conservatives point to it as some kind of ideological Utopia? (I keep thinking about some conservative radio show caller saying we should just let blue states do what they want and red states do what they want, and then see how successful they all are. Haven't we already done that? I'm willing to bet all factors of societal health are better in California, Washington, and Vermont than they are in Alabama. Just a wild guess.)

3

No shit bible belt politics like Isis

bobwjr Level 9 June 21, 2019

Too late. It's already here.

3

Wow. My thoughts are heading off in all sorts of directions.

Are the church patrons so unruly that security guards reporting crimes to police can't keep up?
Are the current police so incompetent that they can't do the job?
Will this new force by made up of mercenaries (maybe Blackwater is available)?
How will the new force be armed?
Who will pay for this?
Will they be state subsidized (as the current police are)?

This strikes me as the sort of horrible idea that could only come in the American South. It's shocking and disappointing. I wish I were more surprised.

Update Added: Will they have private insurance for the inevitable lawsuits?
Will they be minority neutral (as if the current police are)(maybe they'll use the KKK rather than Blackwater)?
Will their jail be humane (with toothbrushes, soap and beds?)
Who will be their judiciary?
Wow again.

Update Two: I changed 'racially neutral' to 'minority neutral' above. I bet their culture discriminates against lots of different folks.

RichCC Level 7 June 21, 2019

There's an academy on the church campus with 2000 students. It's understandable that they might want security but why a dedicated police force?

@vertrauen It may be an intimidation tactic to keep people in the church, or intimidate members with authoritarian tactics.

They are combining two fears. Active school shootings and synagogue shootings. If they increase their African American membership then they could also cover church burnings.

2

Sounds similar to the Brigham Young University police who are scheduled to be decertified in September because of problems surrounding their handling of rapes on campus.

2

Sharia law under different name?

2

First you had Amish mafia, now it's pentecostal police. Hopes and prayers were not enough to protect everyone? Go figure.

I gues they're not as dumb as we think. They're taking action to protect themselves, proving how shallow their faith in god is.

@IAJO163 Maybe they'll have magical bullets that only destroy unbelievers.

It’s not Pentecostal, it’s Presbyterian.

Them Presbyterians are a vicious lot, known for their goal to establish a worldwide theocracy. The first step will be to shoot all the Baptists and Methodists once they get their police force.

2

I hope they have a very large liability insurance policy.

2

It'll probably act like the other private school campus police.
Serve and Protect the church administration and shield it from anything negative coming to light.
Most obvious example in recent years has been rape allegations getting buried.

Hastur Level 8 June 21, 2019
2

In Germany up until the 30's Universities could also police its students. It got out of hand and had to be abandoned as being unworkable. So would this mean child pedophiles and sexual miscreants won't have to face a non-church trial? Things like this are why so many people are leaving churches.

2

Why is it abominable for their schools to have security?

It’s not. That is not the problem.

@Rob1948 the article specifically states security for the property of the church and the school. Which is perfectly acceptable. Private security is common. Getting all butthurt because churches want force protection, is irrational.

@Veteran229 The purpose of the police force is to protect people and property. Not just property.

There is a whole big world of difference between a private security group and a police force. Private security does not have the power to arrest (though they can detain you if you are on/in their area of concern).

The church’s security force has full police powers that gives them authority to pursue, investigate and arrest. The police force is answerable only to church officials.

They already employed private security. That security force could carry weapons to protect the church’s people and property.

So, that goes back to what I said: why to they need police power?

@Rob1948 no where in the article does it say they can go off property. You are extrapolating that for your own will. Nor does one need police powers when detaining/arresting criminals of private property. You can already do that on your own property/ persons hired to secure your property.

@Veteran229 They have full police powers. I find nothing that says otherwise... and, I would assume they can pursue someone off property as a part of active pursuit. Private security cannot do that.

As you confirm, they do not need police powers to detain on property, just as I noted. So, why do they need police powers?

@Rob1948 all police power is, I removal of liability. So removal of liability of the individual. Without a law the individual could be sued for damages, instead of the church being sued. It is the same mechanism for police. You sue the state and the police have no liability.

@Veteran229 I doubt it removes liability. Officers can be sued for their actions for a number of reasons.

And, by being police officers, they can be sued and arrested (as is the case now in Florida) for not taking action. That is not going to happen to private security.

But, we shall see.

2

Pentecostal cops with guns? Scarey!

1

Phewwww

1

Oh, yeah because you just need more guns in America.

1

I know this is crazy but it goes into ideas of protection so as to NOT be shot and killed in your church. My religious friend is now going to a Baptist church in Missouri that has secret armed but not known members in case of some crazy coming in to kill you. This has happened before in black churches and Muslim groups, so these local Baptists are making sure they can protect themselves.

I thought that was god's job? What happened to faith? Lack of makes religion a farce.

1

Are they to be armed?

Purportedly.

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