Indeed. Look at the characters in Brave New World.
Benito Hoover, Lenin, Bernard Marx

Not too veiled I would suggest!

@OwlInASack well put...

@OwlInASack “Free speech brigade?”

I would have said the “politically correct brigade” as they are lacking in empathy, though they don’t realize it.

@OwlInASack Your confusing me... free speech is not politically correct speech. Would you explain further. What you are saying sounds contradictory.

@OwlInASack actually, free speech is under fire from both the left and right.

I didn’t agree with Myers. Free speech is much more complex and also more varied in its proponents and components. I also disagree with your characterization of free speech as an objection to political correct speech because, while I agree that there are such elements as you discuss, it is too narrow in application and, for the same reason too simplistic. Further, in my opinion, many who make the claim of “code words” etc. to support what they claim is overt discrimination, fail to recognize that there may well be other reasons for the use of the word.

An example, someone remarked to me that the hand sign that the ultra right uses to denote white power is racist and everyone using it is racist. I would agree that, for that group of individuals, that that would be correct. But, not for many others, despite what that person said. A great many of us grew up using that exact hand sign to mean “OK.” Thus, for us, being accused of using a white power hand sign and being racist because we flashed the hand sign is wrong. To us, it simply means OK and nothing more. And, any one making such an assumption is guilty of assuming something that is totally wrong. They lack understanding because they don’t bother to ask. And, that same thing goes for code words. They aren’t always “code words.”

Actually, there has been discussion, by both left and right about limiting free speech to offer protections to various affected groups. And, this week the political right in Florida passed a law limiting speech critical of Israel and supportive of Palestine. I doubt it stands constitutional scrutiny, but, like limitations on discussions about abortion, there it is. I’m not aware off any real efforts to limit speech from the left, but it has been discussed. And, as you alluded to, university campuses have limitations to free speech— some on the left and some on the right.

I do agree that we all have a moral responsibility that comes with our use of free speech. But, my moral standards, your moral standards and those of others may not all be the same. For either of us to assume our moral standards related to free speech supersede those of others is wrong. And, that makes it a very real problem. It’s handled one way here (examples: can’t yell fire, fighting words, verbal assault) and it’s handled differently elsewhere (France for instance: commentary denying the Holocaust) and in Muslim countries (no Bibles, porn, singing, etc.)

Perhaps the US errs to far toward openness but given the alternatives, I’m OK with that. (The emoji is defaulted for the letters “OK”. Try it on your phone.) in the end, we have to follow our moral compass in speaking and realize that we should ask what a person means rather than making an assumption before we accuse them of negative behavior.

@OwlInASack sure. And, thanks.

@OwlInASack sigh. I had most of an answer written but the interface refused to let me use it.

Suffice it to say, I understand what you are saying about free speech. I would prefer people become less sensitive to some speech and worry more about action. I think objections speech allowed in the light of the day is easier to combat than speech prohibited. For that reason, I err on the side of openness.

Dog whistles and code words are often synonymous. Other than “states rights,” I cannot think of any good examples at the moment.

By understanding what someone means... I mean this. It’s not uncommon for people to misunderstand a word, phrase, or sentence, thought to either be taken out of context and misconstrued. And, it’s not uncommon for the person to misconstrue it and go off angrily as a result. This is particularly true when dealing with written words. People don’t have the advantage of seeing facial expressions, body language and inflection as well as other visual or auditory gues that aid in understanding. Worse, people all have different experiences, frames of reference and vocabulary definitions for words. And if you are dealing with people of different cultures or even age groups, there is a huge potential to misunderstand. For that reason, rather than reacting to what we may think is a code word, slur of sexist remark, we should stop and think or even ask what was meant before we assume I’ll intent. But, alas, that does not happen enough.

Everyone thinks their moral standards are superior. And, some may well be. But, for the most part, they are just different. As for your moral values leading to a better world, I’ll bet there are a dozen others whose values are different, and some polar opposite to you, who believe their moral superior standards will also lead to a better world. Just not your better world. Hopefully, someone will come along and say your superior standards and mine all stop at the point where they bump into each other — the proverbial nose. Too, keep in mind, what you think toxic may not be to someone else. And, vice versatility. LQGBT rights being the perfect example.

Standing firm for your moral standards and choices is fine and I agree. But, unless and until we can learn to get along and accept our differences, there is going to be conflict.

A comment was made about whining privileged white guys. I understand what you mean. But, you need to understand that it’s human to resist change, particularly when change may be perceived as harmful. And, please understand that change takes time. If you expect immediate change you probably won’t get it. But, if you work to get change and educate those old white guys and show them where they gain more than they lose, change becomes a much easier sell. Consider too, there are a lot of old white women who are just as resistant and for very similar reasons. Give it time, keep going forward. In time, you get what you deserve.

@OwlInASack yeah. We don’t disagree much. I agree with you about those out only for themselves, those who lack empathy, etc. The answer to much but not hall of it is education and integration. I find that better education helps with the ignorance and, to some extent, gullibility. I also find that encouraging integration in school is an antidote to impaired empathy and ignorance. I’m against religious-based and racial private schools and home schooling because they aide in insulating people from differences and different viewpoints. Worse, they can help perpetuate stereotypes and ignorance.

But there are those here who do not see the problem or refuse to. I think that it represents the single greatest long-year threat to enhanced racism in this country and is a key part of the effort to brainwash younger voters to vote for politicians that will attempt to establish Christianity as the US state religion. That will be the end of free speech, civil rights, science and a whole lot more in this country. (My personal opinion.)

Same here. Nowadays I am somewhat comforted in knowing that I will probably be dead before the shit really hits the fan with climate change and our system and economy collapsing for good in the US. But sometimes I'm not so sure about the US not imploding before I'm dead.

The novel you're referring to is It Can't Happen Here, but it's already happened to a large degree since 9-11 under a collaboration of Bush, Obama, and now Trump, with the cooperation of congress and both parties, to deepen fascism in the US and suppress dissent against US foreign policy, intelligence policy and practices, erosion of civil liberties, and militarization of our police forces. Getting rid of Trump won't solve the real problems, which are the growing fascism of our govt. and the worsening plutocracy of our political system.

@TomMcGiverin As much as it pains me to agree that Democrats were also part of the trend towards totalitarianism, Ruby Ridge and the Branch Davidian attack at Waco did happen during the Democrats watch.

Do you believe the disclaimer of Russian state involvement in Russia Today?

@vertrauen He’ll no!