Okay so I post quite openly on social media. With the death of Hawkings, I have been especially fiesty. So I post to FB some anti-christian things. My sister (religious) messages me (to my cell, not through FB) about how it bothered her. How should I go about this conversation?
Update: I posted the FB that must have upset her. I do not even personally mention Christians.
Damn I just gave the bible a trashing in one of my women's groups. Someone started a post about homosexuality and most were supportive but the right wing christians started up about read "your" bible and shit like that and I put my thoughts in and of course I got attacked. Them christians be rabid.
It concerns me that this morally bankrupt Christian crap is becoming acceptable in this country.
You're entitled to your opinions and your sisters to hers.
You could ask why, if her faith is so strong, the way someone else believes could affect her? Why would it matter? You could say that since 85% of white evangelicals voted for Trump, and he is racist, a sexual predator, is homophobic, xenophic, insulting our allies, courting Russia, trying to reduce health care and social security, etc, then Christians are negatively affecting the entire world, so you have a right to oppose them.
You could even tell her that the Bible is almost a copy of the Sumerian texts, carved on the walls of Babylon 2000 years before the Bible was written. Except showing that humans were genetically engineered by an alien race, and the Hebrew god is seemingly a crude copy of the Sumerian leader, Anu.
The origins of human beings according to ancient Sumerian texts [ancient-origins.net]?
I agree with a lot of what everyone else has already said. You're entitled to your opinion and to share your thoughts. I obviously don't know what you posted to trigger these comments from your sister, but as long as whatever you shared was respectful--I don't see what the problem is (I don't agree with bashing others solely for their religion because religious people can be good people, but it's totally fair to call out blatant lies or the terrible things people are doing in the name of a religion).
I hope you can work things out with your sister.
I think all believers know, deep inside, how shaky their belief is given all the obvious evidence in real life. The believers, to protect themselves from questioning their faith even more, really hate being confronted by the other viewpoints. In short, they will always be "offended", meaning they really want to be in their bubble and not be forced to confront their doubts. In short, there's nothing you can really do but to avoid posting these things on social media. When I do post on FB, I try my best to be subtle, trying to post things that make people think, rather than sounding like I am "attacking" any religion. That's me. And I want to be clear - I do NOT mean you all should stop posting antireligious rants. I just find that that works out for me best.
Wonder what her view is on Muslims, democrats, homosexuals, etc. In my experience, xtians paint everyone else with a pretty broad brush but when it comes to them as an individual person or church, its all " I'm/we're not like "them"/that. We're "real xtians".
OK, I am not attacking anyone or saying anyone is wrong. These are the three rules I use before saying something (most of the time, my temper gets the better of me occasionally).
I get what you mean when you refer to Christians not policing their own. The reality is that all believers believe in a god that agrees with them. That’s why Christianity has thousands of denominations in the US. Al a carte religion at its finest.
Maybe help your sister see the folly of it all. Ask her why her religion forbids her to teach.
I purposely don't post anti religious things on FB for this very reason. I have a lot of religious family who I love, and the religious in this country are so used to being treated with kid gloves, they get their feelings hurt if you say anything against religion at all.
I don't blame anyone else for posting anti-religious messages, it's just my personal choice. I'd rather talk to them one on one.
My friend - if we are going to make any progress, don't feel that you need to stand down to placate her. If she really loves you, she will go through the Christian bullshite of "oh, I know you are a sinner, but I love you anyway". But, after a while (of piling on guilt) she will realize that she always loved you, just because of who you are - and it didn't depend on the 'love' of any one else.
Maybe pledge to hide her from posts you make going forward that you know might upset her? --- -- Or ask if she’d be okay if you posted more pro-humanism, pro-science and other uplifting secular memes and comments that don’t mention Christianity by name? -- -- Another option could be to suggest that if something bothers her online, she could simply choose just to ignore the post and love you anyway (without commenting on your post.)
I gave this some more thought and came up with more ideas. Just because one says they are “good Christians” doesn’t mean the organization they belong to isn’t rotten to the core. Denial of the harms caused in the name of their religion does not absolve them. It doesn’t absolve many of us who were once a part of this. At least we were/are willing to look at the monster in the eye and say we no longer want a part of it. To do otherwise, I see as cowardice. I also need to add this is a common issue I have with some of my FB “friends”. It is easier to share with all instead of a select few. Maybe you should simple share your rants with those that aren’t emotionally related.
I won't presuwme to know you, your relationship to science, or indeed your motivations or intentions in your struggle to field a defense against delusional individuals. Having that been said, a wise man responding to a question about marriage and happiness replied, ive never once won an argument through the power of insult. My point in mentioning this is that when dealing with the religious, it really is a game of numbers and content. For thousands of years they have been developing arguments and building defenses to oppose the common sense you and I share. It would be a mistake to think logic is an attribute that stretches across all people, not everyone knows what you know. I could be wrong in this metaphor, but from what I can see, youre like playing a team sport, but without your team. I don't care how strong, powerful, intelligent you are, winning 5v1 isnt likely to happen. The only difference being in this case, its not 5v1 its 300,000,000v1. So the question is, by what means can a convincing argument be waged that contains the power of persuasion? From what ive seen, the method that has had success in this debate is to kind of sneak in through the back, or trap door. To compliment them enough, on at least attempting to understand the world, then through reason and logic showing how their views are not consistent with reality, and allowing them to come to these conclusions on their own. Carpet bombing thier ideas with hard hitting facts only makes them more dogmatic. A friendly, guiding approach, never insulting or insisting on facts will yield greater results. So I guess what it boils down to is what are your goals in this? What do you intend to accomplish. If you are simply looking for a fight, well thats easy, duke it out and each goes there separate ways more dogmatic. If the goal is to persuade, then reason and facts alone can only really br used amongst likeminded peers. For this battle, its almost required to compliment those individuals who are the most conceited in order to get past the barriers created in their minds.
For me, I call out the bad behavior (when I feel like it) instead of attacking the whole of Christianity or religion, unless it is a very specific and clear item of faith.
It's not fair to say Christians are Stupid, or Women are Bad at Science.
Sometimes it is difficult though because Religion is used as an excuse for bad behavior, which is simply due to the fact that Humans are often kinda shitty to each other.
Heck I am so tired tonight that I am not sure that even made any sense.
Distinguish "your religion can be interpreted to inspire hatred" and "your religion is not true even if it inspires good in people". Other than that, I have personally not gone any further in the family. I might be giving up and just replying "fuck off from now on
I would suggest only stating facts. Try to take the personal aspect out of it. Start with Mormonism and how it was a sham(a grifter started it, forgot what he was writing, etc) then start with how the Jewish religion misstated facts( the exodus, slave labor, the coming savior) then outline every stolen Christian idea(virgin birth, the resurrection, the apostles, etc) but do a little research so you can refute inaccuracies in the argument for God. I would also suggest an admission that there could be a “God”, but no “Christian” or man made God. Then she could relate to a desire to find meaning in life. Which is all she gets through religion.
This is timely. I don't have many individual friends on FB and most sites are groups as FFRF, Humanists, Union of Concerned Scientists, Big History, EngenderHealth. The executive Director of one group, Friends of the San Juans posted a picture of shoes on a lawn which was a part of the student protest over gun violence. One couple replied that there should be such a demonstration for all the victims of abortion!! These people are so desperate that they try and link the two issue and I did reply, strongly. I throw the hypocrisy and lies from their ideas back at them. I did this with some frineds who are living in Ireland and they eventually unfriended me (good).
With a family member it might be good to gently use reason and ask questions. If they are in total denial and closed to other ideas than one has to decide to be and enabler or speak up. FB should be about discussions, not only 'likes'.
Your sister is just wanting to be heard. I think you can say "I hear you" and still say "nevertheless these remarks do not apply to you and I will continue to speak out against people who hide behind the label "Christian" so that they can abuse me. You can help by speaking out against them, too, so that you're not complicit by your silence."
For example while I recognize that liberal Christians are not participating in the cravenness of the evangelical community in enabling Trumpism and other abuses of secular democracy, I do fault them for being complicit by timidly avoiding shaming and critiquing evangelicals for their demonstrable perfidy, in the name of kum-by-yah and a warped, PC view of acceptance and inclusiveness. This is not a politness question, it is a moral question.
Present it to your sister as a moral conundrum that demands that she address it. She is a Christian who should be offended by the actions of her fellow Christians and additionally, she's a sibling who should be offended by how it impacts you. If she's not identifying with these cretins, then let her demonstrate it by admonishing them.
Hawking is dead. He does not "now know the truth about creation." In fact, he knows nothing right now. He does not have an invisible body part that instantly went to meet with an invisible god. This part having now taken over for his dead mind, and it's called a "soul" by the numb believers who just keep on making things up. That is how we have gotten to this point where we are today. The faithful make it all up.
Oh, it offends you. Then don't read it or talk to me about it.