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LINK America’s Founders Wanted Church And State To Be Separate And So Should You

Kind of like "preaching to choir" posting this here, but feel free to re-post the article on your Facebook timeline.

snytiger6 9 Oct 3
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0

People must really be afraid when they want Sunday School moved into the public educational system. This is the only way I have ever understood it.

1

Before using the popular media or the words of political activists to write at length about the wall of separation or the Establishment Clause, check what the US Supreme Court has done.

Google “scotus separation of church and state” and among the links you see look for one to the history on the subject. Prepare for some reading that lawyers are well paid to do. Maybe better, say you don’t know and want to do some research before you reply.

An alternative: google “scotus sex” or “scotus pornography” and enjoy.

2

To view the constitution on this matter, you have to look at it in context. Most of the founding fathers were of British descent so I will concentrate on the problems that England had with an established religion up to that point. Europe was Catholic until Martin Luther and religious divisions began. Henry viii latched onto the idea to facilitate his divorce and appropriate church funds. That made him de facto pope of England. Monasteries are dissolved, priests, nuns, and monks marry. England is protestant and Catholics are persecuted.
After Henry viii and Edward vi, Mary comes along and its all change. Priests, nuns, and monks come out of retirement, leave their spouses and Protestants have to hide now. A reign of terror gives her the name of "Bloody Mary"
Then Elizabeth i and all change again.
After that James i of Scotland who although Catholic keeps the county stable by outwardly converting and doing what he is told so he can secretly carry on being gay. (the king James bible is commissioned)
Not so his son Charles i who wants to push towards Catholicism again.
A civil war ensues. Charles is executed and the UK becomes a protestant republic. Life is drear, sport, theatre, and Christmas along with many other things are banned.
The monarchy is invited back under Charles ii. All religions are tolerated but Charles has no legitimate heir. His brother James ii is very Catholic but as he has no heir too, so no worries. Then James' wife gets pregnant and the nursery rhyme "Rock-a-by baby" speaks to people's fears.
Parliament fires James ii and invites William of orange and Mary over to take the throne. Mary has a dubious claim and William is a fat German with no English but they are not Catholic and that will do. James lands in Ireland from France and he and Billy duke it out in the Battle of the Boyne.
James loses and apart from a failed coup by his son in Scotland, the UK is under the protestant Hanoverian rule. Not that life all sweetness and light and many choose a life in the new world to get away from all this madness.
By the time we get to George iii (who was actually mad), it is no wonder that the establishment of a state religion would be the very last can of worms that the new USA would want to open.

Btw the UK monarch is still de facto pope. His/her prime minister was still in charge of choosing bishops right up until Tony Blair who abdicated the role due to him being a closet Catholic. Converting after he left the office.

2

It was more aimed at NO state sponsored religion as was the normal in Europe.

I doubt they would have evoked god so many times in written documents of the time if they were anti-religion.

No, god is not mentioned in the constitution, neither are political parties. I believe it was omitted in order for the defining document to be religion neutral.

The amendments that became attached to the document were necessary in principle but not necessarily in outlining how our government functions.

3

I too do not support having an official religion. But religion has sneaked into government to obtain free taxes, a word in our pledge allegiance and even on our money. The 1st amendment states: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion," WTF!

1

I do not support our having an official religion—to establish one legally would require a change in the constitution. But in the worst scenario, suppose that such an official religion were established. Would that be the end of the world?

I would like to point out that in every Scandinavian country and Finland the official religion is Evangelical Lutheranism. England. Scotland and Wales all have official religions. Apparently in none of these places does it make a bit of difference whether or not there is an official religion. (Ironically the news outlet for this article is in the UK)

Apparently we need some sort of big scary threat going all the time. Maybe it’s just to keep our blood pressure up and keep us stimulated. A glass of wine would work as well.

1

There are very few people who advocate for the establishment of a state religion or theocracy in the US. Our constitution forbids congress to make a law establishing a religion, and pretty much every religious group strongly supports that provision. There is no need for alarm, no need for organized efforts in that regard.

Religion is a basic and integral part of humanity and you are not going to ever keep every shred of religious expression out of government. Examples:

Many VA hospitals have chapels for people to go for quiet prayer or meditation. Those chapels are perfectly legal. In the military there are chaplains, also in prisons.

Public libraries generally have a variety of books about religion. No one has called for banning those books so far as I know. Likewise museums often have religious art. NPR sometimes presents programs with religious themes. We have a right to free speech.

Religious people have a perfect right to band together in supporting laws or candidates for office. You can not deny them the right to free speech.

School vouchers or VA benefits can be used to attend religious schools. This has been upheld by the Supreme Court.

If government workers or officials want to meet for prayer sessions, that is their right and should be of no concern to others.

On the other hand, having “In God We Trust” on our coins might be construed by some as the establishment of a religion. It’s sort of far-fetched but am not opposed to removal of the phrase.

0

United States of America is the secret religion of the Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worshipper European invadors since their freedom from England July 4th, 1776. Raping this land from the original indigenous inhabitants calling them such as Mexicans, Indians and native American.

Word Level 8 Oct 3, 2019

@TheMiddleWay got deleted

@TheMiddleWay have you studied the physics of information? Seen part of a video the other day. Get a chance I would revisit see if I can pick up on some modern jargon to help explain the physics of biblical text style God.

@TheMiddleWay I was "packing" in the anti-gun room and one of the anti-gun people went lunatic. I guess the agnostic admin got confused by lunatic man and thought I was making the threats.

1

The Federalists (Hamilton, Madison etc) did want separation. Read The Anti-Federalist Papers to see the opposing view.

1

This is promoted by a lot of groups including FFRF, The Humanists and other heavy hitters. As we keep saying it is not about the majority and used to be the Constitution. Now it seems it's strictly about power and money.

1

They also wanted Slavery for africans and No Voting Rights for Women so.... What is Your Point about Rightness of the Fumbling Fathers??? ???? Waiting on your Answer.

Even Gandhi had racist views in his early life. peopel are products of their time and culture. The lucky ones rise above it and progress. Just like qa person shoudl nto discount Gandhi and his accomplishments for his early views, we should nto be condemning of those persons who accepted the cultural values in which they were raised, because we are now in a more enlightened culture with a more progressive sense of morality.

Einstein is remembered for his genius in physics, but he had filth living habits and was extremely disorganized in his daily living habits... and he was also notoriously unfaithful to both of his wives.

The pint I am tryigbn to make is that you don't discount the person(s) totally because they weren't perfect by today's values and standards.

Thr U.S. founding fathers werenn't perfect in their own times, and certainly would not measure up by today's standards. However, by the standards of their own time, they were very innovative and progressive.

0

It's been posted on facebook. Other than those who are also members here, I don't expect too many people are going to give it a "thumbs up".
Good thing that's not why I post stuff.

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