The Pilgrims came to establish a Theocracy , NOT religious freedom at all

@twill That is true. The very first settlements were so a particular religious sect could worship without state interference. However, each of the first settlements were from different religious sects, and so by the time of the American Revolution and establishment6 of the U.S. constitution it was thought the best way to keep peace among everyone was to separate church and state permanently.

@twill I've reviewed some of the history. I can't agree, since they wanted to establish a colony under the auspices of the English crown. Had they wanted to establish a theocracy based on their particular beliefs, it doesn't make sense they would have any ties to England, and officially recognize King James as their ruler.

While true that religious freedom was not their only reason for coming to America, it seems to be their primary reason for leaving England, first for Holland. But their continuation in Holland was apparently doubtful, for various reasons, including their ability to continue practicing their religion as they saw fit.

@bingst What I have read about this recently is from "The Founding Myth".

One has to be careful here. Most of our published history is indeed the "founding myth".

@snytiger6 It seems Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, Thomas Paine, etc., knew quite well the history of religion on a world wide basis. These men were learned, enlightened and not just backswamp farmers. They knew the dangers of state religion.

Christian Myth tends to paint them as only guided by God, not by reason, thought, planning & execution.

@twill Well, I was talking specifically about the Pilgrims. I don't dispute what you say about the Founding Fathers. But I should point out that some of that history of the Pilgrims seems open to intrepretation. It looks as though we have a better idea what they did but less so about exactly why. It seems to me they probably thought they could achieve enough autonomy as a colony to practice their faith as they saw fit, while at the same time maintaining enough ties to England for some protections in other aspects.

In considering the history of the Pilgrims and this issue of why they came to America, it leads me to question why they didn't just return to England to stay if their continued existence in Leiden, Holland seemed tenuous. Especially considering they all apparently briefly returned to England in order to set sail for America.

@bingst Regarding the Pilgrims, I am referring to Andrews Seidel's book "The Founding Myth: Why Christian Nationalism Is Un-American" pages 98-107.

The Founding Fathers comments were replying to snytiger6

@twill I see that. I sometimes don't pay close enough attention, I think because I get the alert as a reply to my comment.