"obviously his "powers" aren't as vast or significant as they seem to believe ... but to the extent that these believers have "faith" in the existence of their deity then he exists."

Actually, the delusion "exists" not the actual deity.

A child may believe they "love" Santa, but in actuality, they "love" the concept, the idea, of Santa. Because, Santa does not exist. You cannot love an unsubstantiated belief. You may love the concept or idea of that belief which you have conceptualized over your lifetime from many different sources. But the substance, the proof, the most important thing needed to make people believe, that they can't produce.

I once saw a young girl in utter grief, sobbing uncontrollably, and could not be comforted. I learned that someone had told her that Santa did not exist and it was as if she had lost an actual loved one. Some might say, how awful that someone told her the truth about Santa. I say, how awful that someone told her the lie in the first place.

@nogod4me you're merely arguing semantics. everything you think exists is actually just signals interpreted by your brain. there's no blue. that wall isn't solid.

@JeffMesser If you get run over by a truck, the "signals interpreted by your brain" will not be "there's no truck or that truck isn't solid." However, the delusion or denial that it wasn't harmful or "solid" may still be there.

@nogod4me that is someone else's volition - not your own. you can intersect with the influence of another's reality with your thoughts and actions.
"A man is but the products of his thoughts. What he thinks, he becomes." - Mahatma Gandhi

@JeffMesser And no amount of thought will make a truck that is about to hit you less "solid."
Positive thoughts can motivate toward acquiring a goal, however, they don't create substance.

@nogod4me the physical reality of something colliding with something else is only one aspect of its' existence. a small one when you consider the ravages of time. you absolutely fail to consider inter-reactions with the surrounding world. But of course that's because your view is static. existence, however, is NOT static. a frozen frame of time is a tiny percentage of the whole. this is precisely what you guys miss. entirely.

@JeffMesser it's a very powerful "aspect of its' existence" since it can end your existence. Just because you believe something doesn't make it true.

It reminds me of one of the most hilarious cults: Christian Science.

In comparison, the following appears in page 240 of Arthur Corey’s, Christian Science Class Instruction, where the phrase is then quoted from Mrs. Eddy rather than Calvin Frye:

“During dessert at Pleasant View one evening, Laura Sargent posed this question: ‘Mother, if someone put a leaden bullet through your heart as we sit here at the table, what would become of you really?’ Smiling quietly, her teacher looked up and said, ‘Why, I'd go right on eating my apple pie.’ What she clearly implied by that was that while she might appear dead to them, she couldn't possibly appear dead to herself, and so would go right on doing exactly what she was doing and seeing it in the same old way. She brought this out in a discussion of the subject with Dr. Frank L. Riley in November 1897, in which she said that if she saw the Doctor slain by an arrow before her, she could no longer converse with him. She added that he would go on about his affairs, leaving no body in the chair where he had sat, while she would proceed to bury his dead body in belief.”

[christiansciencehistory.typepad.com]

That is so funny, Mary Baker Eddy denies the physical bullet going through her heart will kill her while at the same time embracing the fact that eating a physical substance will sustain her. Just utter nonsense from the insane.

@nogod4me and just because something can intercede and cause an alternate effect doesn't disprove existence. thats a complete failure of your logic.

@JeffMesser What is interceding? What alternate effect? Believers are consistently trying to "disprove existence," reality, science, history, and truth, trying to make their delusions plausible. What they need to do is to prove the existence of the nonsense they believe in. That would solve their problem, first PROVE their god or beliefs are true then everyone on this planet can join the conversation.

Believers believe in things they cannot see and doubt the things they can see.

Believers have deluded themselves to the point of denying everything that is contrary to what they BELIEVE so that they may KNOW that ONLY what they BELIEVE is true. That is insanity.

@nogod4me and if you would actually LISTEN instead of just looking for more ways to say the same thing then maybe you'd start to understand that the methods of "proof" you seem to require are not always available for all things. for chrissakes take a damn epistemology class and learn something.

@JeffMesser so you are saying that you can't PROVE what you think you KNOW and actually only believe to be true.

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing." - Douglas Adams

@nogod4me no, I am saying that the things you think are required for proof aren't always available but you're being completely closed about it. so there's no point in continuing this "discussion". you won't listen. you just keep saying the same things.

@JeffMesser so you are saying that just because we cannot prove something then we can just make up anything we want and tell everyone else that they are being close-minded about it because they won't accept the lack of evidence as proof. That is the cult mind.

@nogod4me no, I am saying hat there are limits to the method of epistemology you expect and you need to learn them. such static testing requires an objective perspective and a measurable trait. when neither of those is available then you must find other methods. you don't just keep saying "well if you don't show THIS then it doesn't exist" when THIS isn't even an available method. As with red shift and other effects you must find other methods of proof. And with that I am done with this exchange. If you're not willing to open up then there's no point continuing. You're resolved to stay where you're at and that's your loss. Maybe some day you will realize your myopia and find there are other forms of "proof".

@JeffMesser I don't have to say that something doesn't exist, it is the person making the assertion that must prove the assertions they make. I couldn't care less about the myriad of beliefs and nonsense people spout without evidence.

What "other methods" do you suggest when dealing with belief, other than proof: wishful thinking; blind faith?

Have you believed every lie someone has told you simply because they cannot prove they are not lying to you?

I agree!

I've seen enough disorganized religion believers that they are not much better than believers in organized religion. Politically yes, but they tend to be the anti-vaxxers and the people that don't want telescopes on mountain tops. I've had it with crystals and magic.

Certainly not in my case - and I have been in many extremely precarious situations. The only thing that happens is that afterwards I truly appreciate being alive and sentient.

@Petter Ah... so you have not lost faith in yourself. If you had , you might have had to turn to religion...

@chiara23k ... or to a friend, preferably female!
But never to a myth.