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LINK Kurt Vonnegut, Christ-Loving Atheist - Image Journal

"In his book of essays The Man without a Country, Vonnegut wrote that “For some reason the most vocal Christians among us never mention the Beatitudes. But often, with tears in their eyes, they demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. And of course that’s Moses, not Jesus. I haven’t heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere.”

Next to the Sermon on the Mount, the words Vonnegut quotes most often in his work were spoken by his fellow Hoosier, Eugene V. Debs, while running for president on the Socialist Party ticket: “While there is a lower class I am in it. While there is a criminal element I am of it. While there is a soul in prison I am not free.” In Timequake, Vonnegut called those words “a moving echo of the Sermon on the Mount.” He quoted them again as an epigraph to his novel Hocus Pocus, which he dedicated to the memory of Debs, “a Socialist and a Pacifist and a labor organizer.”

Vonnegut found another “echo of the Sermon on the Mount” in the work of Mark Twain. In a talk he gave on the hundredth anniversary of the completion of Mark Twain’s “fanciful house in Hartford, Connecticut,” Vonnegut declared himself “a skeptic of the divinity of Christ…confirmed of my skepticism by Mark Twain in my formative years.” He then cited these words of the author as “a profoundly Christian statement, an echo of the Beatitudes:”

When I find a well-drawn character in fiction or biography, I generally take a warm personal interest in him, for the reason that I have known him before—met him on the river….

“The river, of course, is life,” Vonnegut said. “Mark Twain is saying what Christ said in so many ways: that he could not help loving anyone in the midst of life.”"

[imagejournal.org]

WilliamCharles 8 Apr 12
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Love Kurt, Slaughter House Five was assigned reading in junior high English , he and other similar authors helped me become aware and (woke) to not only religion but real life in general.

I love that one of the reasons Slaughterhouse Five made the banned books list, was a line of dialogue that was actually true. Vonnegut explained that when he was wandering back through enemy lines after his release, a US soldier called out from their hidden position along the roadside, "Get out of the road you dumb motherfucker!" 😄

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And where is the wisdom or truth within the Sermon On The Mount? The words have become familiar like Christmas carols, but where is the underlying take-home meaning? Be merciful? Be righteous? Be peacemakers? Be pure at heart? Historically, Christians are famous for disregarding these notions. How about: 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. It is Christianity itself that should be thrown into the fire, were we to judge it by its own measure.

These epigrams sound nice. However, in their absolutism, generate the exact opposite results from their intent. Those who insist others believe the same or die negate the original flavor. Again: 13 “You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet. - - Again, Christianity fails its own test. Christians are anything but Christian, and, truth be told, neither of those paths, Christianity nor what Christians practice, have salient merit!

No fiction, no matter how florid, becomes true. That is the take-home.

Maybe, but I'll still not wear cloth of mixed fibers just to be safe. 😄

Thought I'd post that Matt Dillahunty pretty much agrees with you. Thought he made some good points here.

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"The best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible" SClemens

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Thanks for this posting. You reminded me that all this courthouse posting of the Ten Commandments is really about Moses and not Jesus. This is good information to fight believers with but they will switch the Commandments and claim it is really about you and their god. As for Vonnegut, I do remember him. He once wrote a short story called "The Giant Space Fuck" about shooting a rocket into outer space.

The Big Space Fuck complete here:

[sensitiveskinmagazine.com]

Can never find a link again after first seeing it, but Vonnegut said the best story he never wrote was "SS Psychiatrist." Concentration camp guards would come in despondent about the horrible things they'd seen or done, and the psychiatrist would reassure them about what a good and noble thing they were doing for the fatherland and civilization and send them back out to continue their brutality.

6
  1. “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”
  2. “Blessed are they who mourn, for they will be comforted.”
  3. “Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the land.”
  4. “Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied.”
  5. “Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.”
  6. “Blessed are the clean of heart, for they will see God.”
  7. “Blessed are the peacemakers, they will be called children of God.”
  8. “Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”

Funny, at this point in my life I find not much inspirational in those eight statements. Some are OK but too many pointing at myth. There are sayings from the Bible that I still find myself using. “A house divided against itself will not stand.” The golden rule and “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” That last one wasn’t even in the original manuscript. There are just so many other books that contain much more uplifting sayings without all the truly terrible baggage that the Bible has. I honestly believe there are probably 30 atrocious ideas for every decent one in that book.

gearl Level 8 Apr 13, 2020

"Blessed are the cheesemakers."

I regret not taking "the bible as liturature" class in high school. I think I would have enjoyed it.

I think that, like so much of the NT, the beatitudes are a re-iteration of the OT. It might be that it is meant to to reflect how life would be if the Jews lived up the Mosaic Law rather than having a universal reach. I'm referring to the blessing section of the blessings and curses written in Deuteronomy.

@WilliamCharles That's my favorite beatitude!

everything that is attributed to jesus was plagerized from the writings in the Torah. so I don"t attract the haters out there ( all you self righteous know it alls) who will criticize me for bringing up a religious writing I am just stating fact. I am a secular Jew who has read the Torah and the New Testament. I find the story telling just that . maybe some things in there are about true events and maybe not.

7

George Orwell came to the conclusion that communists do not love the poor. They just hate the rich. What is it about Christians that they too are motivated by hate while professing a message of love? My guess it’s what Nietzsche said about Christianity being passive aggression. I don’t think it had to be that way but it very often is. The Ten Commandments fit much better into that mindset.

I feel this maxim describes the family unit to a tee. No one makes the baby work for its food, and in later years the child contributes with various chores.

"To each according to his needs, from each according to his ability."

2

All bullshit.

I think many of our stories from antiquity have worthwhile elements. It's worth knowing how our forebears explained the world around them.

@WilliamCharles what for? Bs is bs.

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