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I’d like to get members opinions and thoughts and feelings about agnostic theists; of which I am one. I don’t KNOW if an entity was the first cause or if there even was a first cause but the Kalam really makes one think. I have all kinds of doubts due to the problem of evil and the suffering in the world.

tactic8 4 Oct 15
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35 comments (26 - 35)

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Examine the evidence...that is how we evaluate anything prior to concluding whether or not we believe it to be true. In these present times of so called alternative facts, it still holds as true as ever...there is no alternative to facts, alternative facts are fiction at best and downright lies at worst. This has always been true, and after 13.8 billion years of known existence of our universe, there is not one shred of evidence of the existence of a creator. Logic tells me that on laws of probability therefore, that the likelihood of one existing is nil. Evil and suffering are sadly part of the human condition, along with a propensity to believe in a non-existent and wholly manmade god.

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Most of us are free thinkers who dispassionately look at evidence

bobwjr Level 10 Oct 16, 2020
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Does it not strike you as somewhat odd that all of those who believe in a heaven and hell have managed to create one for themselves and nearly everybody around them. If someone believes that there is a heaven or hell which one enters after death then I wonder why they are waiting, surely they should be making all haste to get there. However, they may find as Nietzsche said: "In heaven all the interesting people are missing."

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Maybe this helps.

0

Darn! Who wants to try to talk to that bald asshole! He talks over both the lady and the caller. His style turns one off completely.

I could care less about STYLE
I care about TRUTH

@AgnoBill...You have a problem with bald people?

1

I refer to Occam's Razor: * "the principle (attributed to William of Occam) that in explaining a thing no more assumptions should be made than are necessary." Or, in other words, the simplest explanation is more likely to be correct.

The simplest explanation is that potential energy/energy has always existed. We know that energy becomes matter and that matter returns to an energy state. Sometimes that matter becomes life; sometimes life becomes sentient and sometimes it becomes self-aware. But, in the end, everything is energy in some form or another.

Science shows us that no creator being is necessary for the universe to behave as it does. So, if no god/universal consciousness, holding everything in its place, is necessary-- why insert one?

Adding a consciousness to this energy, or making it a god, adds an unnecessary layer of complexity; and especially so if one gives human attributes to this being and makes claims that it is involved in human affairs etc.

[google.com]

A good way to put it. Also if there was a god, it would have to exist outside our Universe, for if it did not then we could not know what each individual is responsible for, or whether god did it. Therefore there is no free will, which we all know exists, otherwise, why have a consciousness, it would just make one aware of some bad thing coming without being able to do anything about it. A Universe is not needed unless there is a god who needs to spend his time playing with himself.

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If you don't know something to be true, then the default position is to assume it isn't.
You do not KNOW there is not a nun's habit wearing purple invisible intangible giant hedgehog shitting invisible, intangible big macs all over your front room carpet, but I am pretty damn sure you are not agnostic about that.
You do not know that Leonard Nimoy was not the second coming of Christ who instead of saving the world decided to make sci fi movies instead and just never told anyone and refrained from performing miracles becaus they gave him chronic IBS, but I am pretty damn sure you are not agnostic about that either.
What makes the ridiculous claims of Christianity any less bull shit, than any other bull shit claim?
Nothing, so why make a special pleading claim for ir?

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Evil is caused either by nature or mankind. Kalam, or any religious tenant, doesn't mean anything. Man is inherently evil. We want or need so we take. If it is not given, we take by force. This is not to say that evil can't be overcome by good. It can... But rarely.

You are mistaken. Man is a social creature and meant to live in groups. Evil is not inherent, empathy and care for others like us is.

@sterlingdean He spoke of evil and suffering... Put 5 people in a room for 1 week with no food. Then, put in 1 plate with food and see what happens. Sharing won't happen most likely. Man has always conquered and taken what he wants. History is filled with the stories.

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OK I'm stupid, what is an "agnostic theist"?

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Finally admitting that there is no 'Supreme Being' you can understand why there are good and evil people in the world.

It seems me that by your statement that you conclude that people who "admit" that there is no Supreme Being somehow have better understanding of why there are good and evil people in the world. How does admitting that there is no Supreme Being lead better understanding of why there are good and evil people in the world?

@tactic8 It is my opinion that people who want to believe that we were all created by some all seeing, all benevolent, all powerful being can't logically explain how such a being could create evil. Yes, it would have to be the creation of that being since, according to them, nothing existed before it. Without that problematic belief, you can understand that some people a. are out to get whatever they want regardless of who it hurts, b. Have power over others, and/or c. take pleasure in others' misery. You don't have to reconcile with that foolish remark about 'free will' that so many theists use.

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