In wealthy countries, what we eat is very much a life-style choice. Poor people in wealthy countries and the majority of the population in poor countries don't have the same choices and are thankful for any nutrition they can get. I agree with the person who referred to using the same compassion with regard to food that you would use in the rest of your life.

First; Vegans do not eat honey, they do not use silk products either. Second, the nervous system of a mammal or bird is more complex than the one of insects. Third; Farm industry feed caws with grains, cows gain an average of one pound per six pounds of feed they consume, so you (I do not eat meat) are killing 6 times more mosquitos by eating beef. Last but not least you have the environmental issue.

Okay you have fully missed the point but that is okay lol !!! The point is not the amount of creatures you kill .. The point is the effect the process as a whole has on the environment.. To produce beef there is a massive carbon offset say compared to nuts (easier example for you than insects) .. Same goes for insects.. The carbon footprint involved plus amount of sentient animal lives lost makes more sense to farm insects or nuts for a vegan !! It's not ALL about the sentient creatures angle there is also carbon and sustainability to consider ... sentience is a big thing though so insects are just more preferable to fellow mammals i think .. It is categorically not better to have the cow in environment terms. The photo below will show you a simple breakdown using beans instead of nuts or insects but both yeild similar results .. I am not vegan What that example photo is not showing is the amount of carbon involved in making the beans or insects is way less than farming a cow.. Beef can collect in your colon causing cancer .. This won't happen with nuts or insects.. there are a lot of angles in this !!

Kill the cow insects serve a purpose clean things up ,population control (spread diseases) and other things all cows do is mow the lawn!

I like meat..

I don't think there is a basis. It's less noticable so more ok, is what I would guess.

This is why being vegan is not enough. Pesticides kill more than just insects. They are harmful to other animals as well, including humans. That is why I buy organic produce. People who respect the lives of their fellow animals should be organic vegans, not just vegans.

I guarantee that most of the farmers growing food Vegans eat aren't Vegan or Vegetarian, and will happily shoot any deer, bunnies, or whatever else is eating into their profit margins.

Lol I never debate with Vegans and refuse to listen. I don't tell them what to eat and if they touch my burger they will pull stumps back.
I think people should do them and don't worry about others.
It goes the same way with this whole believe/don't believe thing.
Let people do as they please as long as they don't infringe on others which infringe needs to be defined.

I think it has to be in the context of location. In the Artic or far reaches of the northern hemisphere, food choices are often very limited. I am vegan in America where the animal free choices and availability abound. Morally I am able to spare animals from cruel, torturous and horrible conditions and death. I feel healthy and have lots of energy.

bugs are considered animals that is why vegans do not eat honey. if you see someone claiming they are vegan but make an exception to eat honey or claim "the world would be better off farming crickets for protien" then that person is lying or ignorant. that is not what veganism is about.

(also whoever claimed that farming crickets for protein would be better is a fucking idiot)

there is a difference from someone who claims "plant-based" and "veganism". Veganism is when you do it for the animals and you are an active activist. plant-based is when you just don't eat dairy or animal products.

I find that a lot of people mislabel themselves and in my opinion that is because most people are fucking stupid or don't care to actually inform themselves.

there is no doubt that insects die when we grow our own food. I think that is inevitable and it would be idiotic to ignore that fact.

Now, what you are asking is understandable. "What basis is used to determine which lives are worth more or less?"

This really depends on the person's perspective and I think what we were raised to believe, and how we are brainwashed by our culture plays a huge part in this. I am not excluded from this.

I think it's a sliding scale of Sentience (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience)
For me, I see it as plant, bug, animal, human and alien. It's kind of hard to explain...

Yes, you can feed more people with one cow vs. one cricket although how much water, grain, time and land (and apparently insects that died due to the cow stepping on it, etc etc) went into the cow vs. how much water, insect food, time and land went into producing that one insect?

That was a key question that I think you were missing/over looking.

In fact, a lot of water, grain, time and land goes into raising cows. and please don't forget all their poop and piss that is not properly cleaned up. Most cows sit in their own feces and piss because they have no where else to go.

It's not all about "which lives are worth more?" but also, "Which is economically better?"

The truth is we humans do NOT need meat (of any kind) or to farm crickets to live. There is actually a LOT of protein in plants and legumes. What we are addicted to is the taste and gratification we get from meat. Not the meat itself.

I went vegan for a month, to do a 30 day challenge and I was fucking blown away at how much better I felt. I had so much more energy, I didn't feel lethargic and my depression went away. It was better than any pill a doctor could of gave me. I felt so amazing that I decided to make it a lifestyle. I only made it six months but I learned SO MUCH in those 6 months and I definitely plan on going back and trying it again. It was very hard for me the first month. Not only do I live with a meat eater, but he made fun of me and discouraged me the whole time as well. I was determined though. The second month was a lot easier and on the last month (the 6th) my boyfriend made bacon in our house and it smelled disgusting! WTF! I fucking love bacon and that tripped me out! I had no desire for meat. It was so crazy to me that after a few months, I noticed my taste buds and cravings changing! That just goes to show that we humans are able to adapt to change! I would also like to note that when I started eating meat and dairy again, I became lethargic and depressed again. huh, imagine that. I heard a quote that said something along the lines that our stomach is like a second brain... I actually got super invested in fermented foods which have really good bacteria for your stomach... at the time I would buy vegan kimchi and vegan sauerkraut... I also would get this vegan probiotic drink and take that everyday...

Anyways... this is something I am passionate about... I don't want to be that asshole vegan who yells at everyone because I totally understand. I love the taste of meat myself and I struggle with it. But there is no humane way to kill a human and there is no humane way to kill an animal. if they don't want to die, then it is not humane.

Also, meat is fucked up yes, but dairy is actually even more fucked up but that's a different topic for a different day.

(Even though I am passionate about this subject, I hate talking to people about it because I don't want to come off condescending even though I think I do anyways.)

Not vegan, but... I don't eat any meat that I wouldn't be willing to kill, personally. So that leaves out all land animals, since I'm not going to eat insects. I eat seafood, and yes, I would cut off a live fish's head, or throw a lobster in a boiling pot of water, shuck a live oyster, or steam live clams or crabs. Etc.

Don't ask me to justify any of this, because I don't know why it doesn't bother me (as much) to kill animals from the sea. I would love to eat some bacon, but it would have to be a survival situation before I'd kill a pig, so yeah. No bacon & tomato sandwiches for me.

¯_(⊙︿⊙)_/¯

Circle if of life yo. Get over it and enjoy a burger now and again.

Its basically because cows contribute to global warming in a way that insects dont- also insects due to their size are in the zillions and can reproduce very quickly.
But by all means eat whatever you want its a free country! I'd advise against 'chatting ' with vegans youre never going to see eye to eye.

Where do you think they're getting the food to feed all these cows?

I once knew a vegetarian who used to eat chicken. I once dated a woman who could not harm any creature through her religious convictions, but who saw no conflict in having a snake skin belt.

People are odd in the way they rationalise things.

I wouldn't imagine someone adhering properly to vegetarianism would eat insects. For the remaining omnivores, the question over what's fair game on the food chain depends on culture and circumstance. The French eat horses. The Koreans eat dogs. Both animals that many societies attach too much sentiment to, to consider them food. In a plane crash, shipwreck or zombie apocalypse, even cannibalism becomes an option when all others are exhausted.

I'm not vegan, but my 20 year old daughter is. I think she'd say that the insects don't have the kind of brain structure it takes to feel/interpret pain, while cows, pigs, and even chickens do.

I do not understand.

Yes, they always have answers and only see the obvious. we all eat things that were alive.

We're just human dude.

we evolved, we grew, we figured out how to manipulate the planet to our every whim, hell we even know how to manipulate the universe to learn things which are unknowable on earth.

there is no true morality to life. we eventually developed a diet which was so full of energy, we ended up having spare time to think about things and discuss topics, as time went on these thoughts turned into social normality, we manipulated the ground to grow our favourite plants and then we learned how to make those plants taste even better. we got smart and instead of chasing food wherever it ran off to, we caged it and bred it for the taste. we are here right now because of some seriously ingenius ideas. just because we are smart doesn't mean we are exempt from the food chain. if a disaster struck the earth and left all humans without a home, how many of us would have the skills to survive? if such an event took place, every vegan and vegetarian would vanish in favour of eating whatever they could to survive.

these vegans should be happy we only farm select animals for mass consumption. we humans eat, on a regular basis, about 100 different animals, and that is miniscule on the scale of every living thing we could eat. vegans are part of a cult which demands participation lest you be attacked for not being a part of that group-think.

people live on the streets, people are angry and get stabbed, shot, poisoned, beaten, raped and everything else yet these vegans pretend they are "moral" because they don't eat meat.

the day every human has a roof over their head, financial security and hopefully a job they like, along with social connections, then I will highly consider the plight of the animals we eat. but since there are homeless people who are spat on, looked down on and shoved out of society, I don't see why I should care about a pig i'm gonna eat in two weeks time.

fix humanity, solve our problems, aide our species, and then I will highly consider my diet. until then, i'll fight for humanity and i'll remind everybody about the homeless people they ignore every single day. until they treat every single human being with the same amount of morality they treat a fucking cow, i'll laugh at them and carry on enjoying steaks, breasts, thighs, bellies, rumps, back fat and every other part of animals I eat regularly or when I can afford it.

human lives are worth more. anything which isn't human, isn't worth as much as a human life. I can prove it.

you are walking near a motorway, it's clear, and then suddenly you see a kitten/puppy/calf (you choose which) in the middle of the road, you pause for a moment, look again and realise there is a truck coming and it's coming fast. as you think about what you can do, you realise 15 feet away (from the animal you picked) is a human baby, just sitting there. you can only save one.

there's a reason everybody will pick the baby. self preservation. saving your own species. if you pick the animal, you're not saving your species, you're saving your emotional imablance.

emotions don't equal morality. I have very little empathy for the suffering of others, but I know what a moral choice is and how to pick the best one. I could watch a puppy get squashed by a boot and probably not be phased by it at all. a baby human, meh, maybe i'd react and express my thoughts on why it's bad, but really, I don't care. if you dear reader are a vegan, then you should prefer to improve your species living conditions over that of a lesser animal.

if a pack of lions saw you dying, they would think of it as a free meal. if a single lion saw you suffering, it might, very slightly, but it still might, ignore you or investigate and leave you alone. humans need universal acceptance and social privaleges. that means, housing, work, money, food, comforts, cleaning supplies, toilets, clothes and everything else we enjoy as lucky members of our species. when we're all at the top and not ignoring others because of a shitty opinion about them, I will gladly help you realise your vision. until then, get your priorities in order and fix humanity first.

This issue crops up occasionally and it is always the same. It is as if an atheist was sorrounded by evangelical Christians. We talk about thinking outside the box but when it comes to food choices some minds are locked in a cast iron box. My nephew once asked my late partner why she ws a vegetarian. She gave him lots of reasons and he listened. He then said "I could never be a vegetarian". Her reply was "you mean you don't want to be a vegetarian" and he agreed. One can often do if one wants to. The first thing, though, is to learn the facts. It's called critical thinking not critical feelings!