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POLL 6 Stops on the Hunt for the Holy Grail - Atlas Obscura

I did not know that the Knights’ Round Table was modeled after the Grail Table that Joseph built in remembrance of the Last Supper. That alone was cute. The travel log is also notable. Of course, there is no magical quality to The Grail, if it exists at all, but I think the legend has a romantic aspect to it.

I think The Grail could be an historic relic but not of Divine powers

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rainmanjr 7 Nov 15
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I love this question! 10 points!

If this were QI, I would expect to get a klaxon for my answer. (Does anyone know the show QI here? 😄) Anyway, according to people who know a lot more about european literature than I do, the "grail" would have been a tray. Not a cup or chalice.

So maybe both options are kind of right. Anything old is historical... but also a myth.

Thanks for the atlas obscura link. (All I can do until covid is over is armchair traveling.)

Thank you. Fun reply. What's QI? A tray would capture sweat and blood easier than would a cup, or chalice, so that makes sense. Far easier to produce, as well.

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The myth of the grail is relatively new one: "The Holy Grail first appears in a written text in Chrétien de Troyes's Old French verse romance, the Conte del Graal ('Story of the Grail'😉, or Perceval, of c.1180." This article discusses how the grail is most likely connected to Celtic myth. From my readings over the years, I agree with this. In Greek myth, Medea also had a cauldron that could restore people to life.

This myth, like so many others, was adapted from earlier myth and bent to fit the needs of the teller, the religion, and the culture.

[bl.uk].

And Celts were big on cups, or chalices, rather than trays (in the case that The Grail collected the sweat and blood of Jesus, which makes more sense to me if one considers the relic of Divine power). This is all coming together nicely. I'll tell The King.

@rainmanjr The Celts were quite big on cups, etc. If you recall the myth of Taliesin, he gained knowledge by tasting the elixir in the cauldron he was stirring for Ceridwen.

The etymology of "graal" covers various types of dishes, so who knows?

And I just can't see anyone standing below the cross, cup in hand, waiting for the blood and sweat to fall.

If the king needs anymore info, he can consult me directly.

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Of course it is a myth. Most things people search for in Christianity became "real" only after 300 CE. If Jesus was historical at all there is no reason to believe that in his own timeline he drank from a special cup (holy grail) or that any person of that time would have preserved such a cup after he was crucified. In other words, the Jesus hype of today was not the thing of 33 CE. It had to of came later. Funny how others are writing books today of finding the "holy grail" whether it was cup, saucer, chalice, or what ever. In 2014 a book was written saying the grail is in a church in Spain.

Which is the point of this article.

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The mind is a powerful force. I sometimes wonder if there were a cataclysm that somehow destroyed most human and other life on earth along with records of all the crap we have created, worshiped or otherwise deemed important what the surviving humans would do with their second chance.
I think these tales are allegorical/symbolic of the inner treasure(s) we all possess but sometimes the truly brilliant shine brighter and myths are made of them. We see that expressed in all forms of art.
The evil, well, we've seen that too.

In the last stanza of the song

Jackson says those who survived believed that they were meant to live after the deluge. I've always wondered about that line and think that he was saying if they believed it because a God protected them then the new civilizations will repeat the same mistakes and nature will, again, deal with them. If they believed they survived because of hard work, luck, and community solidarity then maybe what they learned gives humans a chance to survive.
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Everything having anything to do with Christianity or any other religion is total bullshit.

I did point to that. While I don't believe in God, certainly not one belonging to a dogmatic philosophy with huge plot flaws, I'm unsure that all of it is BS. At the very least it's presented humans with 2,000 years of discussions and debate to fill our time. LOL. Indiana Jones went on a Crusade to find The Grail so there is a romanticism around it that's kind of fun. Also, just because the vessel wasn't blessed by God doesn't mean that a last supper didn't happen and the wine chalice didn't survive. Those are possible but unlikely.
my opinion.

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nothing here is true, all myths

While likely we don't actually know that.

But it makes good movie / book plots

@rainmanjr we actually do know that, the round table and the knights, excalibur, the grail and all that crap are legends, totally fiction, not historical at all. Also, there are no historical annals that prove jesus ever existed. The romans were well known to keep records of everything and, oh surprise, nothing of the sort of such portentous nature was ever recorded in Judea at the time. You want to believe otherwise? Then I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, really cheap!

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In the dark dim cobwebbed cellars of brain something is staring saying that the earliest mention of the holy grail is a romantic medieval story. I have no referance for it, I think it was on a tv documentry years ago

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Miss Myth, it's a myth, Miss!

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Theists and atheists alike are somehow committed to the idea that myths are to be taken literally, with the former believing they are true and the latter convinced they are not.

But they equally miss the true meaning of the stories by refusing to consider a symbolic interpretation.

The grail is not a relic, authentic or fake. The reason no one can find it is they don’t know what they’re looking for. It’s not a material thing, but a symbol of a psychological treasure instead.

This is all pretty well understood by the scholars of various related literature today, but seemingly unknown and often even forcefully denied by everyone else, be they believer or unbeliever.

skado Level 9 Nov 15, 2020

It is also a mistake to think that the two are mutually exclusive.

Thanks. I like folks who don't make assertions on the premise that they know something unknown to be myth just because they assert that it is. Further, as you point out (and I suggest by saying The Grail is a romantic idea) a myth may have a greater point that makes it's truth or untruth irrelevant. Grimm's stories were myths meant to teach children things about their world. The Christian story can be said to do that, also, but have been taken a bit too seriously by some.

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Okay, for the sake of argument, let us ASSUME that, just as the entire bible is totally based on nothing more than myths, etc, the 'Holy Grail' actually existed.
Since this mythical Jesus was little more than the itinerant son of a carpenter, actually wandering around the country-side with NOTHING more than the clothes on his back, staying homes belonging to the poorer peoples then,
a) would NOT this Holy Receptacle from which wines was assumed to have drunk at the Last Supper have been either made from baked clay or shaped from wood rather than gold or some other metal,
b) is there an tangible evidence that has been empirically tried, tested and proven that such a receptacle EVER actually existed in the first place,
c) is NOT logically possible and HIGHLY probable that someone somewhere can 'create' such an item and pass it off as the 'Real McCoy,' ( IT has been done before and quite successfully I might add)
d) was the 'receptacle' actually marked with the words such as, Jesus' cup, do not use or 'Property of Jesus,' etc, etc.

Now I have here in MY possession a nail made from copper, a very common metal used for nails, etc, during the early Bronze age and before as well, I can claim that that Copper nail IS a 100% genuine relic from the site where the Ark of Noah came to rest after the Great Flood.
Can anyone show proof that my claim is not the truth?

I do not postulate that The Chalice is Divine or truth, only that a cup used by a wandering philosopher in his last supper may have been saved and reside in a hidden spot, nor that the cup was made by that philosopher. He may have used the cup Judas set the table with but it came from a copper-smith down the Appalachian Road (next to the cross maker). That said, d is very funny but a & c are addressed by the unknown. I think b can't be known until we have the actual Chalice and try testing it.

@rainmanjr Hang on , half a mo here, BUT aren't the Appalachian Mountains and Road in the U.S.?
So, if that be so, then HOW did Jeebus Chrust and the 12 Itinerants get from Palestine to the U.S. in the first place and then back to Palestine in time to be 'on stage' for his BIG Finale?
Did they ALL have round trip tickets on El Al or something?

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I am a demoniacally who is possessed by a demon/devil/ and despite it also think that that the methodists and others of its area think that demonic possession actually transpires

I've read about you in Christopher Moore's book, Practical Demon Keeping.

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