Yes, Freeloaders will always be a problem, unfortunately. I think we're better off giving them what they need to get by on and offering them opportunities. If we provide stability to them and encourage them to contribute, that's how we'll get the most out of people like that. It's a much more humane and logical way of doing things rather than allowing people to become homeless, die from lack of healthcare, or possibly end up incarcerated.

@Zoltans_Queen I am not talking about freeloaders, for the most part. Some people just make bad decisions on a consistent basis.

Try reading some of the other comments to get a better idea of who is right.

Is this the Ron Swanson approach?

What happened? You don't think I need to grow up now?

@Zoltans_Queen

Are you Jessica?

@St-Sinner

You said- Jessica is wrong, you need to grow up- Or something along those lines. I don't know now, since you changed it. I assumed you were speaking to me, since Jessica isn't in this conversation. And even if you were talking to her, I'm making the same point she made, so you are saying it to me as well.

@Zoltans_Queen

No, I was disagreeing with Jessica, Sorry I misled.

I am against the government just giving things to people. Minimum wage is fine but no freebies.

@RoboGraham

That's what I was thinking too, lol

@St-Sinner

What if the cost of the government helping people with socialistic policies turns out to be less than the cost of leaving them to fend for themselves?

@Zoltans_Queen

Excellent question. Even for those who lack the morality and empathy to care about others who are struggling, they still can't get around the fact that it is more cost effective and efficient to help them rather than abandon them.

@Zoltans_Queen
My opinion is arrived at after thinking about it from all angles. I was born in a failed socialist system where we starved of everything and grew up on rations. Shortage, inefficiencies and government corruption everywhere that touched every common man and woman. The rich and well connected were always ok with back doors to systems. Your argument looks good on paper but socialist policies fail. The capitalism forces people to compete and succeed. People in general will get off their ass only if there is nothing free coming to them.

I hope that a third political party with the best of Democratic and Conservative ideas is born and gets strong enough to compete with the American duopoly. None of the two parties have all best policies. Both have very good ideas and very bad ones.

@St-Sinner

Here's how I see it. When new systems are implemented, of course they don't get it right on the first try. It takes a great deal of trial and error before things work smoothly. When we are talking about shifting how an entire society organizes it's means of production and distribution of goods and services, it's going to take a lot of time, and a lot of failed experiments before it's done right. Socialism is still relatively new. There's a lot of progress still to be made. Capitalism was a chaotic mess in the beginning as well. Just read a Dickens novel to see that. What bothers me about capitalism is that, even now in our modern age where we have perfected it, it is still very flawed and inadequate for large segments of society. There is a better way, and that better way is advancing, and it will improve lives and reduce the harm we are doing to our earth.

You reference the typical story. A socialist country filled with poor desperate people living on inadequate rations and not able to be very productive. I have no doubt that the issues were due, in part, to corruption and inefficiency as you mention. But there are other factors. Every socialist system ever devised has been put under massive economic strain by their wealthier capitalist rivals. Crippling sanctions, coup attempts, insurgency funding, and sometimes out right invasion, are the tools used by the capitalist giants to devastate socialist nations. Then, they blame the socialism for the failure. I don't know where you came from, but I'd wager that your country was experiencing these acts of economic sabotage from capitalist rivals. Also, no doubt your country wasn't as wealthy as America. We have more than enough to provide for all.

I think you underestimate people. Sure, some will be lazy, but most of us have ambition and want to contribute and do good for our communities. In fact, the more good our communities do for us, the more willing we are to contribute. I think the desperation of the working class under a capitalist system is much more harmful and causes more inefficiencies than if we simply allowed lazy people to be lazy. It's not like there isn't enough to go around. Especially here in the USA. We have to spend money and resources on uncooperative people regardless. As it is, we rely on a massive prison complex and police force to keep control. We could spend that money on bettering people's lives and we would reduce our social strife and misery and increase productivity.

Your second paragraph is great. I totally agree.

@Zoltans_Queen

Like I said arguments really look on paper but socialism has not succeeded. About a great vision and hopes and its most failed implementation... look to the Constitution of the former USSR. It is still considered the best written, ideal and model constitution in the world and yet the worst implemented.

@St-Sinner

Yeah, it was a big failure. We will learn from their mistakes. These things take time, generations even. When something looks good in the planning stages and fails when implemented, you don't just give up when you know it can work, you learn from the failure keep moving forward.