Very poetically and well said.

@David1955 Thank you and much appreciated.

@Triphid I'm pleased that you use the term "follies'. Like Trumpism, communism et al they are follies en masse - collective delusions.

The increasing secularism of the young scares them mightily. I do not think the impotence of religion during COVID and the positive role of science has helped them either.

In a sense that's true. Atheists are diverse as any group is. However, there are often values that underpin an atheist's view, like mine stated in the post. It doesn't automatically follow, but the trends are there. Research on atheists shows this.

@David1955 Have to agree with @xenoview. It is not fair to assign values to atheism beyond its definition. That is not to say they are not there, or even preferred, but they are not driven by the atheism itself.

@Canndue agree with you and @xenoview

You cannot lump personal values to atheism as it has no values outside of proven science and the disbelief in fairy tales.

@redhog @Canndue @xenoview the philosophical point you make is true, but my point in that in the real world, as the stats show, many atheists hold progressive values and politics. Look at the political and social and economic views of many atheists on this site, for example. A few years back the "Atheism+" movement sought to foster this trend. It didn't succeed all that well as people didn't like the term, but it did recognise the overlap between atheism and progressive values.

@David1955 Atheism is about a lack of belief in any gods. That is all it is. Being a secular humanist is not being an atheist.

@xenoview you are still arguing definitions. I'm not arguing that. I'm talking about social trends in atheism. We are at cross purposes.

@David1955 Atheism doesn't have social trends. Atheism is a lack of belief in any gods. You are trying to turn atheism into a world view, it's not.

@xenoview oh have it your way. I'll just keep reading and researching trends in atheism, which of course don't exist to you.

@David1955 Do you know what an atheist is? Do you know what a secular humanist is?

@xenoview you don't think everyone has maybe a slightly different definition of those terms? I mean, no offense, but i certainly do not agree with yours, and find most atheists to be total believers; just in "no gods." Iow rarely--if ever--agnostic

@bbyrd009 Do you know what an atheist is?

@xenoview well, someone who believes in no gods, imo, as i said? Dunno about "knowing" anything tho fwiw

@David1955 "oh have it your way"

Translation: I've got nothing except my obviously wrong thinking and I'm going to stick by that rather than rethink.

@redhog no, smarty pants, it means we'll have to agree to disagree and leave it there. If you disagree then have it your way and leave it there.
Some people on this site are so disputatious that even trying to exit a dispute results in further dispute. Very disappointing.

@David1955 David, if you re-read my post, you’ll see I agree the traits are there. Our disagreement is the source. I know several atheists that are conservation and even trump like. I think you are seeing groups of them has to do with their initial political slant. Birds of a feather do tend to flock together.

@Canndue David1955 is trying to say Atheism is more that a lack of belief in any gods.

@xenoview yeah, I get that. And agree there is likely correlation, I disagree on the causation.

@Canndue and if you read mine, I wasn't suggesting that all atheists share the same value systems. Even on this site there are crack pot right wing atheists, sadly. I wasn't talking about causality or absolutes, but some patterns and trends. Surely that nuance was clear enough. Look at PEW research and others on atheist characteristics. There are tendencies, that's all, to progressive values. Whether one thinks there is a link between a person's atheism and their values is a matter of opinion. In some cases I think there is. Hopefully that's clear now.

@xenoview you might prefer the term “assumptions?” although ferris bueller maybe ruined that too lol

mildly curious how you square this reticence to admit to any beliefs when you "believe" that aliens exist...

@bbyrd009 I believe there are aliens out there in the universe. I don't know if they can travel in space yet.

@David1955 ........fallacy alarm. .............. atheism follows from rationality, not from this neo hot house "progressivism", an extention of the new left madia putch, being peddled here. actually even the mainstay issues of the bogus new "progressivism" have no more common philosophical roots than roosevelt's new deal coalition. its built not by political theorists but by practical polititians........ to win electoral majorities from the self announced disenfranchised.. it flowers today at the moment of the great non white demographic shift. did the secret agnostic/atheist anti- pope send mr.1955 to ratify it by presegious proclamation? ........disputo contuo torpedo loss!

@David1955, @bbyrd009 ...more "angels -fitted- on the head - of - a - pin " debating! oy guvalt !

@holdenc98 I'll take that as a political comment and opinion.

@bbyrd009, @David1955............ disapointed? maybe its time to retreat to your fortress of solitude and write your memoirs.

@holdenc98 based on your slightly curious take on atheism and politics? Hardly.

@David1955 just below the sdurface.its all abou you having the courage to turn your good mind , for the first time to my knowlege, to the taboo but essential topic of black lives matter and feminism. in the media. im still waiting for word - one. one man's curiousity is another man's lacunae

Full agreement. Also, I could have added that religion has lost its pull for many people for two reasons -- the increasingly discredited reputation of churches as witnessed by sexual and financial scandals, and second religions don't just fail to explain the world in ways that comfort people, they are increasingly the opposite of where people are in their lives, I mean sexual and lifestyle diversity and so on. Religions are mostly stuck in the past, morally and behaviourally, while populations, especially young, are moving forward. This is where progressive secular values and tolerance should prosper and thrive. I also think that religions will get more desperate and dangerous, fearful of increasing secularism, apatheism amongst the young, declining church attendance and so on. Their response will be to control and thwart where they can, and increasingly this leads to authoritarianism. The author seems to think that religion will die away and, oh dear, what will we replace it with? The real issue is, how to we struggle against the regressive antimodernism of religion so we can move forward? And struggle is exactly the way I see it.

@David1955 As brutal as it may seem, the ignorance enforced by religion raises the level of mortality in its adherents. The "God will protect me from Covid-19" phenomenon is just one example of this. The murder by Catholics of the residents in their "care" homes is a loosely related example.

In terms of what do we need to replace religion with, this raises the question of does it need to be replaced by anything. Social association will continue, with or without religious overtones. The dogma of religion may give way to enlightenments brought by the Scientific Method.

If there is to be a way forward, I see it as gently coaxing people out of the fears imposed upon them by, to put it crudely, God Mobsters.

@anglophone couldn't agree more.