I agree and many Americans will wonder "why" and blame Putin.
That is what happens when you ruin peoples lively hood, actively discriminate against them with political leaders and the media demonising them constantly.
If something happens, they will feel they have nothing more to lose because both the establishment and society have abandoned them. Desperate people do desperate things. Society rejects them, they will reject society and attempt change. perfectly logical, emotional response.

@puff Yes, and many more than they have experienced far worse, yet, they educate themselves and learn who their real enemies are and fight them, they don't join forces with the enemy and destroy theirs and others futures because some idiot incites them through hate, racism, and violence. There is no excuse for willful ignorance, especially based on belief and not reality.

They need to read a book. A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn would be a great start.

You may not have understood that I was being sarcastic against your "feel superior and safe" comment.

@nogod4me "There is no excuse for willful ignorance, especially based on belief and not reality."

This is true and I described the reality. The threat the belief poses, that "medical treatment requires consent", is not an extreme threat. That is only true of course if you accept reality. Specifically the reality that covid vaccines are not stopping transmission.
But the prevailing belief is that unvaccinated are dirty, disease ridden spreaders. And real measures, financial and social, discriminatory measures to coerce them are in place. Reality.
Another belief is that they make hospital work harder, under stress. The reality is there is a pandemic and people get sick, with many vaccinated also putting pressure on services. Health care in the US is far from gold standard. There are many premorbid conditions associated with illness requiring hospitalisation with covid, or is it from covid? But the overriding belief is the sole factor is the unvaccinated. They are to blame. Reality? The vaccines are not stopping transmission.
Beliefs can be dangerous when backed with actions to enforce compliance. But only to those who don't believe.
Different reality if the covid vaccines stopped transmission as the belief suggests.

@puff Who told you "vaccines stopped transmission?"
Nonsense, just more crap from the anti-vaxxer crowd trying to establish their beliefs and confuse people into not getting the vaccine.

Even vaccinated people who have come in contact with it can spread it. It is just more likely for the unvaccinated to die from it. However, just like other diseases we have eradicated, the more who are vaccinated the greater chance we have of eradicating this disease also.

If you don't want to get vaccinated, great, just don't spread lies trying to talk others out of taking it, it could cost them their lives.

For example, like this fool: "All of Trump’s Lies About the Coronavirus - The Atlantic" [amp.theatlantic.com]

@nogod4me Please do explain then how a herd immunity is achieved through vaccination programs if transmission is not stopped? Why have our governments aimed for those percentages needed to be vaccinated? For example we were first told the very "safe and highly efficient" emergency approved vaccines need about 60% vaccinated coverage to stop transmission, thus attaining a herd immunity.
Useless ones can get over 90% coverage, like Australia, and it still spreads.
Do you understand the term "break through transmission" ? It means very rare as opposed to common and expected.
If it's not stopping transmission, it is no effective vaccine.

@puff Your ideology, your beliefs, fears, knowledge, and lack of knowledge, will not save you.

Tomorrow will be the anniversary of my mother's death from COVID-19. A few days later, my sister, who is 3 years older than me but couldn't get vaccinated at the time because of the age restrictions, collapsed bleeding from the sinuses, not able to breathe. The closest hospital that could take her, because the nearest ones were full, was 60 miles away from us. She was immediately put on a respirator and suffered for a week before she also died, not being able to speak to us from the moment she collapsed. The vaccine would have saved their lives had they been able to get it. They would have been part of the living herd, the only threat would have been spreading the virus to those unvaccinated. Some of our friends who have been vaccinated, yet got the virus, survived it with without much discomfort.

Promise me that if you are not vaccinated and you get COVID-19 that you will not go to the hospital, promise me that the loved ones you have influenced not to take the vaccine you will also influence not to go to the hospital, no matter how severe it may be. Swear that if you break that promise that you will vacate the hospital very, very quickly one way or the other.

@nogod4me Thanks, it's nice to be asked rather than told is it not? That is my only ideology, consent. As the law states below
[alrc.gov.au]

Yes I know emergency legislation can over ride this and mandate.........FOR VACCINES ONLY.
Now do you understand why I argue covid medicines are not vaccines? Because if they were not classed vaccines, they could not be mandated by law'.

PS I will choose to ignore your suggestion for my actions. People are dying, it is a pandemic and you are in mourning. I do not celebrate death.

@puff I think that anything and everything should be done to stop this pandemic. Those that that hinder or stop that progress should be at the mercy of this disease and should suffer the greatest and suffer the most losses. I don't care how you color it or what you believe, fuck them. If they get it, let them suffer, they shouldn't get help in a situation that they help to exacerbate.

@nogod4me So you going to reject medical care for fat obese fucks who ate themselves to their position? Same with diabetes? Smokers? Cool Aid drinkers?
People like you is why medicine has the Hippocratic Oath.
Want someone to blame? Try directing it at those in power, those who created your health system. The ones who have disrupted supply chains through mandates

@puff If obese people tried to justify and push their disgusting eating habits, and smokers tried to get others addicted, and believers tried to get others to drink the Kool-aid, then yes, they should be stopped, only an idiot would let them continue. Hopefully, they will suffer and die before they could influence anyone else with their disgusting ideology. They are already a weight on an inadequate health care system.

@nogod4me No, I'm someone who acknowledges we all have got a life on this rock and may live life it as they choose. If you choose to kill, be aware societies will punish you but that choice remains to us all. It's called Life and how you do it is up to you. Many people don't agree with each other which is fine in my books. Better than all being sheep or drones. Avoid being beholden to doctrine as much as practical is my advice.

You may want to start agitating that 90%+ of food commercials are removed from the airwaves as you feel so strongly about influence and what you personally judge as unacceptable if you wish to impose your will on others...

PS It's a pandemic and people are dying and we all have a responsibility to protect ourselves if we choose but must consider others in our actions. I have no problem taking a vaccine for the sake of society. But there is no vaccine to take unfortunately ie if I take it I am not protecting anyone because it is not stopping transmission and I won't be coerced into taking it for that reason. Blind Freddie can see it's not stopping transmission. Idiots think it's a highly effective vaccine.

@puff That's is childish. I don't advocate killing anyone, however, if an anti-vaxxer dies from the disease who has been pushing their beliefs and ideology causing others to not take a vaccine or medication that could save their lives, then I say let them be ridiculed, and let the world rejoice, another kind of disease has been defeated.

@nogod4me Glad you mentioned childish. Why are children being inoculated? Last excuse I heard was to gain a herd immunity. The young are not vulnerable. There are some special needs but the vast majority, after a risk Vs benefit analysis, should not take it. Yet authorities push it. There is no direct benefit for the child statistically. Long term issues unknown. I find that ideology dangerous, accepted by a population that has been basically terrorised with doomsday messaging for 2 years. So scared, willing to put the future at risk. Don't even bother testing first to see if kids have already had and recovered, which adds further risk (if a kid gets measles, you don't give them a vaccine after the fact because there is risk in doing that. You find that sort of shit out by monitoring over time which is why it takes 5 years of study before vaccines are released on the public. Unless a pandemic is declared ie emergency ie multitudes dying then short term risk outweighs long term risk. Are multitudes dying or is it far less than one percent?)
Covid-19 vaccines do not stop transmission. Consent required for medical treatment.

You see, I've just turned. The debacle over Djokovic has firmed my mind from getting a vax, I was just waiting for Novax, to not. It is not an offence to not get vaccinated.
I have felt like this before, when I went from agnostic to full on atheist. You have the majority of society seeking to spread the "truth" and telling you about all the dire consequences if you don't accept their truth. Seen as unclean, a dirty heathen.
So, as when I became atheist, I am now going to go through my militant stage and point out what fuckheads they are. Like theists, they will get offended and defend their doctrine to the death. Beyond caring now.
If me being unvaccinated and vocal about it offends, suffer in your jocks. Not illegal.
If pointing out emergency approved medicines will be taken off the market after pandemic declared over upsets some, boo hoo.

@puff Agnostic and atheist are on two distinct continua.
And I am (we are) not offended by people not getting vaccinated. I/we think they are selfish idiot assholes, but fully support their right to not get vaccinated. In that same regard, I fully support the rights of every single public entity and private business owner to require vaccination as they see fit and bar the unvaccinated morons from any and all use of their property and services.
I have no idea what happened with Djokovic because I couldn't possibly give less of a fuck about tennis or what whatever the tennis commissions rules are about vaccination. A. I already stated I support each entity's right to decide vaccination requirements for themselves. B. I think our world should be long past thinking competitive sports is a thing we feel is important.