I might catch some shit for this. Maybe not...
Last night, Saturday, Joan and I went out to dinner. We've been seeing each other for a brief time and have recently gotten intimate.
We went back to her place as usual, made some drinks and went up to her bed.
We hardly got comfortable and talking, when her son called her from Indianapolis. It was a little after 7pm. She answered, NBD, right? I figured unless it was an emergency or very important, the call would be brief, that she would make arrangements to call him back later.
So I lay next to her for a while. Maybe 20 minutes go by. I hear bits and pieces. It's really a general convo. In fact she seems to be extending it.
I leave the room.Go downstairs and visit the dog.
Then I come back up. She hands me the TV remote control. I play around with the stupid thing.....100 channels, nothing to watch. Should I mute it ?
I shut the fucking tv off.
Go back downstairs. Nothing has changed convo wise. Still blathering about nothing
The son is 30 yrs. old, It's Saturday night....
I come back upstairs. Gather my wallet and things. She's rubbing my back as I sit there ....wondering WTF .
I Go back downstairs. It's now 8:30. In my mind, I'll give her until 8:45 then I'm leaving. I could have been home playing guitar or watching Sienfeld. ( admittedly I have not said anything, made a hand gesture OR given her a dirty look. Should I have ?)
Finally after 9 o clock, I go up there to tell her that I AM leaving. She's in her bathroom, still on the phone !! So fuck it. I put on my shoes and jacket and I leave. It is 9:10....an almost 2 hour fucking conversation...about nothing. TRUE Seinfeld ! The irony !!
Go ahead Peeps. Tell me what you think about this
2
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12 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.You went out to dinner and were back in bed by 7 PM? I suspect she was underwhelmed by the dinner and rush to bed.
Alienbeing
Level 8
Feb 25, 2022
0
She bought dinner and suggested bed. I'm in !
We are both early risers, nothing out of the ordinary. Not sure if there is a "Sex Hour" or something...is there?
@twill Sounds fishy.
@Alienbeing I'm saying !! The whole thing was weird
It would have been much better had she stopped talking for a moment to give you direction as to what woud happen next (as in, "can you be busy for awhile, we haven't talked lately" or "can I make it up to you later, and thanks for a lovely evening" )OR told the son she would call him back tomorrow as she had company (UNspecified company!!!!)
To do neither indicates she is a kind of a wishy-washy person, with a poor sense of time passing. But not much else.
Having said that, i feel by posting this you are showing a bit too much neediness.....or entitlement? A Mother (as in, Worthwhile Woman) would never put her casual lover above her kids! As many have pointed out, you do not know the circumstances (why Was he alone on a Saturday night?)
AnneWimsey
Level 9
Feb 6, 2022
3
Point is not what she did
Point is u are not in love w her
If u were , nothing will had matter much I think
And that’s alright to not be in love
Now , I am gonna give Joan a pass , she knows her son for 30 yrs , she knows u for few weeks ?
Yes the son is an adult , but maybe she did not had a chance to tell him that she is dating ?
Maybe he is a recovering alcoholic or drugs, maybe depressed and struggling , and his phone calls are important to her and him
And yes , many x phone calls seems like no important conversations , but unspoken words that only the two understand .
I will had write off any guy that has a phone call from his kid , and shorts that call to be attending to me . That guy will have not see me again .
In love or just sex , nah . If he can’t be there for his kid bcz I have a vagina , I don’t need him .
That’s what I think , but I don’t fault u for leaving or been frustrated . I think u weren’t feeling it anyways , so it doesn’t matter much
I think Joan has her priorities straight thou . Penis important . But not in comparison w a son / daughter .
I don’t have any kids . Exactly bcz I am selfish and lazy .
Pralina1
Level 9
Feb 6, 2022
5
As a woman, of course, you had to insert SEX and sexual organs into this. Nothing to do with social graces.
Kind of weird she wanted me to lay there...and what? Listen? IDK the man, I've never met him !
Was this a public convo? IDK ....I was at a loss. As I stated, from what I did hear, it seemed she was prolonging the convo.
True, he could be depressed and struggling. IDK, we've talked about our kids, she never mentioned any of that. But oh wait, we only talked about SEX, of course. (eyes roll).
And no I didn't expect to be elevated to the same level of love and respect of her son. Kind of fucked up that you'd go there.
You are correct that there could have been some unspoken words in there. The convo kept going after I left the room 3 times. I didn't continue to listen in. It may have taken a turn into much deeper space.
ANYWAY, She texted me last night:
"He wanted to talk about some things that piled up and were frustrating him. A rare occurrence for him to share."
There ! We have it. The smoking gun !
@twill You have been proven right about Joan. She should have and easily could have, interrupted her convo with the son to tell him she would call him right back, filled you in on what was happening, so that you could leave gracefully, and then called him back right after that. It's not like the lad was in the middle of a heart attack or being attacked by robbers. And Pralina was wrong to inject or imply that your interest in Joan was all about sex. Like I said earlier, it was about basic respect, which I think we deserve from our dating partners from day one, not something we only earn from them months or years later after they decide we are worth it.
Like Pralina, I chose not to have kids, not because I'm lazy and selfish, but because I was terrified about how poor a parent I would end up being based on my own lousy role models. I didn't do it out of selfishness and I proved my bona fides on not being selfish during the last six years of my late wife's life while being her caregiver and later looking after her during her dementia illness. So I am no more or less selfish than people with kids, and I proved it, whether they give me credit for it or not.
@twill I don’t see a problem w body organs or just sex . I had plenty of relationships that I had no desire to let any of my life known , any talks , any “ who I am and where I am heading “. Not everyone who I share a meal or a bed needs to know about my family or life in general . What’s the problem w that ? What’s the eye roll about ?
Social graces … well . I don’t know y she couldn’t tell u for a minute “ that will take long maybe ,”. Would u be less upset if she did ?
I can only speak for me . I don’t care who I am with and what the situation is , if my baby sister calls from Italy , I will take that call and if he does not like it , the door is open . My sister is all I have left in this wide world , and I will take that call and I will talk as long as she needs me to .
What do you want out of your association with this woman?
What’s your motivation for spending time with her?
skado
Level 9
Feb 6, 2022
5
Precisely the point and the real issue to be settled.
Romantic motivation is gone. I think it was already gone before last night, although we were having an excellent time together before the phone call. One never knows......
What do I want from our association ? Friendship & sex.
Being exclusive? NO. Last night sealed that deal.
@twill skado's right. You now know what you want, time to find out what she is still up for and then make your decision, keep seeing her in some more limited capacity, or cut her loose. At this point, she appears to be pretty ambivalent or apathetic about it, so I expect you will likely move on to someone else that offers at least a FWB, if not an actual dating relationship. I'll be surprised if she even wants to continue as FWB.
@TomMcGiverin Skado's right about what exactly?? All he did was ask 3 questions....is this over my head?
@twill Actually, it boils down to two ?s. What does she want at this point and what do you want regarding her, in the face of her wishes concerning you?
@TomMcGiverin got it
@twill Best of luck either way, man....
@TomMcGiverin Thanks Tom
I don't do online dating, but if I did, as soon as I saw "my kids are my life"....NEXT.
Secretguy
Level 7
Feb 6, 2022
2
You got it bro, as soon as I see a tipoff that the woman is very family or kid oriented, it's on to the next profile. However, in my Iowa dating pool, where Midwest, outdated family values are king, that eliminates about 90% of the dating pool from consideration. What's confounding is that, even among the women WITHOUT kids, the consensus is that for some reason they also only want men with kids. WTF is that about, besides being sort of hypocritical?
You live in LA, so I can only guess if being very family-oriented is as predominant as it is here. My only guess as to why so many women without kids are only seeking men with kids, is that they are simply conformists who drink the Kool-Aid of their fellow single women and assume they need to follow the pack and seek the same family men with kids as their sisterhood dictates.
@TomMcGiverin I'm lucky in that my wife never had kids and didnt want any.
@Secretguy Same with me and my late wife. I really lucked out in meeting such an outlier from the local dating pool when I met her back in 1995. I had no idea back then that I would be widowed at my age and be treated as such a freak by so much of the present dating pool for being childfree... Esp. because at my age, you would think it would no longer matter to most women. I have been proven so wrong about that....
This is why when I see a dating profile where the woman either has a few or more pics of their kids and grandkids, or says in their profile essay that they are " family-oriented", I move on. I won't put up with that kind of shit like you did. I can understand and accept that their family will always be their first priority, but if they don't give me the same kind of respect that my friends already give me, they don't belong in my life, even if they are giving me something like sex that my friends aren't giving me. Suit yourself if you want to keep indulging her, but I would cut her loose, unless you want to just dial it back to a FWB, something I am not wired for or interested in doing with anyone.
My friends and I have enough respect for each other that, if we got a call from a family member that was not an emergency, we would do the respectful thing and arrange to talk with them later. When we schedule time with each other, we remain present and attentive to each other while in each other's company, so why should a girlfriend give you any less than that? If someone cannot make you that kind of priority in their presence when there is no emergency going on, why the hell are you dating them? And let me be clear that almost all of my friends have family they are involved with regularly or closely, unlike me, yet they would never treat me like this woman did if we made plans to meet up and spend time together.
I find it really odd and selfish that she, as you say, was the one who pushed for going exclusive in dating each other, and then she treats you like this. Seems like contradictory and selfish bullshit... No knock on you or fault of yours, but obviously also it appears that sex with you is no longer a novelty or priority with her, so maybe the FWB is something to consider...
TomMcGiverin
Level 8
Feb 6, 2022
1
You hit that one out of the park !
I'm not sure that sex has been a priority for her ....Or else I've been conditioned to expect more... Yet she led the way. ( always let them )
It's all left me a little confused. I think there is confusion on her part. But I'm not a therapist.
Perhaps she wants a man to be "around" but not a lover to take her places.
@twill I think you have her sized up pretty well. The ? now is how do you want to proceed with her. I can't speak for you and am probably too different from you to advise what might be satisfactory for you. I think you said something very telling and insightful, where you said she maybe just wants a "man to be around" for sex and companionship when she feels like having you and it. Sure sounds to me more like a FWB than a normal dating relationship...
Good women are too hard to find. You should have found a book to read or otherwise occupy yourself. You can discuss her lack of respect later, but now it's an argument. Honestly, you know how lack of respect is part of the culture. I've waited that long to see a doctor, and that used to be routine. I totally get your frustration, but having unmet expectations is a major part of relationships. How you deal with it defines who you are.
racocn8
Level 9
Feb 6, 2022
4
She has two books of mine, one of which I would like to read again. And I saw it on the table, I coulda started reading it.
She was rude. You gave her more than enough consideration.
itsmedammit
Level 8
Feb 6, 2022
3
She was extremely disrespectful. Her message was you are not important. Flush.
I don't answer my phone when talking with someone.
Put it on mute. Or leave the damn thing at home.
LiterateHiker
Level 9
Feb 6, 2022
2
I am a huge fan of Respect & Kindness. It cuts both ways
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