Different nations, different cultures, different mentalities, different attitutes, different everything. Each nation could aim for a positive self-concept. I don't have stats or anything, but in the case of the UK, I think we have at least Christian atheism slowly spreading.

We already get missionaries, but not so many now. The Mormons especially, found that they were losing too many who were going native.

Yes, I realise that the information sources provied by Nate are a little old, but I wouldn't be surprised if those findings got even better over time. I recently read an article saying that some 30% of the Christians in the UK regard the Bible as a compilation of stories and use it as a moral guidebook.

Could you explain your comment? I feel like I'm missing something.

@Betty Oh look means look at the picture.

The chief god-mobster is the priest or the head Male at any such gathering.

Checking the quality is holding it up for scrutiny.

The plonk and biscuits is arcane argot for the eucharist.

@waitingforgodo Thank you for the clarification. I would not have figured it out for myself. It is rather a picturesque way of making a statement.

@waitingforgodo More like, considering that I AM an Aussie, the "Plonk" begin an Aussie slang term for anything resembling a cheap and nasty alcoholic product.

@Betty Plonk, an Aussie term applied to any and all NASTY and cheap forms of liquor, ergo, Communion wine begin "Plonk."

@Triphid It's a good word for it. I'm learning something new everyday.

@waitingforgodo Didyou know that Priests can now buy the cannibal communion wine & wafers as a "Snak Pak"?

@Reignmond Yeah, they've been available via Catholic Church outlets for at least the last 3 decades, so what is new about that.

@Reignmond I genuflect to my learned colleague on this one. If I see them at the shops I'll be sure to get a transubstantiation supply.

@waitingforgodo I first saw those Snak Paks UPS got their deliveries mixed up and I got a delivery of them instaed of the pricey camera lens I was expecting. They church got my lens. We got it straightened out and a laugh over it.

I agree and can only say that while televangelism in the US is big business in the UK I doubt that it would take a foothold. Once I watched a televangelist on Youtube and was gobsmacked by the number of people who bought into that bullshit. A turd can be sprayed with gold paint and presented as nugget of gold but underneath it remains a turd.

There are many pastors/priests of small community churches that don't preach the dogma but encourage the "golden rule". Many of these churches are struggling to stay afloat as they provide counseling for ex-gang member/criminals and try to help kids from being drawn into a life of crime.
These churches are an actual benefit to their communities and I applaud their efforts. They are the exception to the rule.

@Garban
Of course it's different for different individuals, but the priests have studied this at the university level, where they are exposed to all the varied historical perspectives, which most likely include the non-literal interpretations. Naturally, many priests will still prefer the literal for personal reasons, but the percentages spoken of in this post could easily be covered by priests who understood the purely social value of curbing human instincts that would otherwise be disruptive in society... and still felt "called" to the profession, having abandoned supernatural beliefs during college years.

Scientists are just beginning (relatively speaking) to understand and chart the evolutionary (behavioral) implications of religious behavior, and its benefits to society, and they are mostly related to social cohesion and individual psychological health. These are achieved through the practice of modifications to behavior, for the most part, rather than through any particular belief. This is why religions (of differing beliefs) persist in all human cultures. It is the "thou shalt nots" rather than the belief in literal supernatural beings that creates the value to society.

@Betty
Yes. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

@skado As there is with almost everything, there are positives and negatives. With religions/faith based organizations the negatives outweigh the positives.

@Garban
Of course it’s not 100% effective - it’s up against biology. And of course it brings some bad with the good.

I don’t have any personal attachment to these ideas - I’m just reporting what I read in the related sciences. It is often very counterintuitive.

Speaking of which, the “Minimally Counterintuitive Concepts” often included in religions are, according to the science, part of what makes them generationally transmissible. Sounds crazy, but that’s what they’re discovering.

@Betty
Is that your opinion, or is it based on scientific evidence? I have no idea how it could be measured, but I have read quite a few scientific papers and books that claim otherwise. I’ve presented some of them on this site, and have invited others to present papers that support their view, but so far, no one has offered anything but personal opinion. I would genuinely love to see that evidence if you know of any. Thanks.

@skado It is my opinion. The crimes, abuses, and the violence sanctioned and covered up by the associated religions are to me a higher degree of negative than the positive they do.

Oh REALLY so you tell us, Oh Great and Most Insightful @skado, can you actually exhibit such supportive PROOF to corroborate your assertion please, I am awaiting you to do so BUT, given past experiences with you and your past histories
regarding such assertions/comments, etc, etc, then I shall most definitely NOT be holding my breath in anticipation of ANY kind of response for you.

@Betty It is notable that the happiest countries, with the lowest levels of crime, and the best social welfare are also those with the lowest levels of religion.

@Fernapple Maybe that is because there are few organizations encouraging discrimination.

@Triphid He seems to have forgotten the holy wars, work houses, the orphanages, and the schools religions ran and the abuses they inflicted. Or how the "church" blackmailed towns and villages with the threat of excommunication to maintain their hold and control. The physical, sexual, and emotional abuses they inflicted on the young and the long term damage they caused.
I think that when it comes to the scale of positive and negatives, the negatives outweighs by tons.

@Betty Yes, plus perhaps, that people expect more of their governments, if there is not the religious community to fall back on, and also probably, because religion promotes toxic narcissism.

@Fernapple You're speaking my language.

For @ skado only btw, No, no scandal EXCEPT that it is a sinecure for those who are too frigging bone idle and
lazy to bother joining the
ACTUAL Work-force and getting their precious, soft little hands dirty and calloused so they become Religious Parasites instead and prey off the vulnerable of society.
BTW, @skado, are you SURE that you truly belong here and NOT at some "middle of nowhere Alabamie style Revival Church meeting with the rest of the Alabamie Hillbillies?
But then again I guess you are way, way too chicken livered to respond to any of my comments, etc, that are addressed directly to you, but fear not, I shall still continue on none-the-less for I would NOT like to have think that I have forgotten you in any way.

@Betty I think you may have quite accidently forgotten about one of BIGGEST iniquities to arise and be known regarding both, mainly the Catholic and Anglican Churches that operated from as early, estimated by Historians here btw, the mid- 16th, century in England, the Lime Pits at the furthest end of each Convent.
Those were the places where the unwanted newly born babies of the Nuns and Novices were " disposed of, ALIVE, soon after birth.
This I know of as a fact since my maternal Grandfather was assistant to the Convent Gardener, his Uncle btw, and one of their very regular tasks was to actually stir the Lime pits and ensure that, to quote the Head of the Convent, "all things within the pit were being dissolved as they should be and that NOTHING untoward remained behind."
Granddad always broke out in to torrents of tears when ever he related that sickening and disgusting piece of his life.

@Triphid I knew they disposed of stillborn but not live babies. I also didn't mention the unwed mother whos babies were forcibly taken and adopted out. There are so many atrocities over the history of religions that even writing about it is sickening. The few I named previously was more than enough to demonstrate the overwhelming negative balance. Even if all religions only did good things for the next thousand year the negative would still outweigh the positive.
I feel for your Grandfather and his Uncle. That would be a pain so deep beyond belief.

@Betty According to what Grandpa Bastian told me and wrote in his numerous journals, not only were stillborn babies disposed of into the Lime pits but also those of unwed mothers deemed to be from families that were considered by the Church Officials to be, "less than suitable for being granted/GIVEN to those prospective parents from " the better classes of society or to be brought up and trained to household staff in the homes, etc, of the 'Better' classes of society.

@Triphid Mix race children were not desirable and were either trained for menial work or sent to work houses as slave labor. Girls that were not adopted became novices and nuns and were often abused physically, mentally, and or sexually.
We could go on and on with this, the natives and aboriginals, the torture and abuses some leading to murder. There's the ongoing investigation of past sexual abuses and I am sure there are current ones that have not come to light. It just never ends. The ones authorizing the coverups never suffer the consequences. The church leaders, the police, and politicians are all culpable.

@Betty Yes, the absolute and disgusting horrors, etc, inflicted by both the R.C.C. and C.O.E. go back a long, long way and have never truly been addressed or brought out into the open completely and publicly either.

@Triphid As a child I believed what the adults told me. As I aged and learned I knew they lied to me and I just could not accept their dogma and couldn't accept how human beings could be so cruel and heartless. The damage they have done was for power and control. They see themselves as superior, giving them the rights to torture and kill and we have let them not only do it but get away with it.

@Betty Yes 100% True as to the harms and damages these adults who have become the vectors for the diseases known as Religions have, can, will and always continue to do the most susceptible members of human kind, children, is truly appalling and needs to be ended complete and totally imo.

@Triphid Children can be taught the golden rule without any religious connotations. Kindness, compassion, understanding, and empathy are easy to teach in the home and expanded upon in schools and social settings. We don't need made up fantasies taught by egotistical power hungry conmen.

@Betty Precisely and almost exactly as my Dad taught me from as far back as I can remember.
Sadly my 'mother' taught my sisters the entire opposites such as Greed, Hatred, etc, etc, and all 4 of them became carbon copies of her as the grew up.

@Triphid I seems like every time there is a solution for one problem, another crops up. Parenting classes could be a potential solution but I fear more problems could show itself.

@Betty Possibly BUT I have counselled many a client, young child and adolescent as well, that have have stated that their parents went through parenting classes but the results ended up being that the child/children were considered mostly as a source of extra tax-free income with onerous duties attached that needed to be avoided or palmed off to someone else.
Sadly, I tend to think that, unlike with our generation, the Me and Me Only Concept has taken firm root and insinuated itself deeply in to psyche of the last 2 or 3 generations and, sadly, will remain deeply rooted in more generations to come UNTIL the light breaks through the clouds of selfishness and self-centredness finally and permanently.

@Triphid The Me and Me Only generation can not be sustained, it will reach a peak of disfunction and changes will need to be made.
With women's liberation we got the Super Woman generation, taking care of all the home duties, child care, and a demanding career. It was not sustainable and changes were made to share the responsibilities. As with everything new problems cropped up that resulted in the Me and Me Only generation.
Each generation has it pros and cons. The subsequent generations try to fix the problems by ignoring what worked in the previous and creating a "new" solution that had it's own pros and cons and so the cycle continues.

@skado Stone the crows, now we have @skado, the Ultimate Expert on Human Biology, etc, etc, WHERE oh where will his genius turn to next?

@Betty Yes, agree in most points there however, imo, the " Me, Me" concept still seems to going strong in many places, etc, etc, most unfortunately.

@Triphid I think it will for a while yet. I am convinced that it can't be sustained and we'll start seeing some changes with the next generating.

@Betty Yes, and thankfully having young Henry and his friends from his age group around has gone quite some way to showing me that there is a good deal of hope for this up and coming next generation at least.

@Triphid Every generation brings change, some good and some not so much but there is always hope.

According to the following article in the Daily Mail more than 53% in the UK have no religion.

[dailymail.co.uk]

High unemployment rates among the deluded?

I guess it is a sinecure and like many other kinds of paid work that people do they simply put up with some shit to earn some money. My impression is that here religion is rarely a topic of conversation as most people have more interesting things to talk about.

@ASTRALMAX
Or Brits' general understanding is that religious belief is something so personal that it shouldn't be imposed on others.

@Ryo1 I agree. I think that most people whether religious or non religious in the UK do not impose their views on religion on others.

[en.wikipedia.org]

The answer, imo, is quite simple, " When you are on a Good thing, stick to it."
And what better life-style can one get except spreading bullshit ( words of religion that is) maybe 1 or 2 days per week, living in a rent free house, paying no Utility bills, a Guaranteed Tax Free Income and an also Guaranteed Pension at the end of it, all your medical expenses, funeral costs, etc, etc, are TOTALLY covered and the Sheeple will go out t5heir way to do anything for you as well."

If you were a Priest and on such a Good Wicket so to speak, would you gleefully swap the career of doing little for even less effort, i.e. an ABSOLUTE sinecure, to seek out employment where you are expected to turn up for work and toil away hour after hour, 5 or 6 days per week, have to pay Income Tax BEFORE you get to collect your pay, etc, etc, etc?

The replies I get are he has his own and speaks all of them. Just like he lives in his own dimension and has his own time. I know it doesn't make any sense to me either.

You can't ask them the hard questions. They either have no answer other that just have faith or they try to change the subject.

@Betty, @GrooshStar, IF, and that is a very big IF btw, you ask a Preacher you will be told that God speaks to you through YOUR mind and not by the sound of a voice because we humans are unable to actually hear God because we are too flawed and simple.
Now, taking that from point of view of a Psychologist I'd say that " Hearing voices in your head are a possible and probable sign/symptom of a mental or psychological imbalance or even, unfortunately a brain tumour."

@Triphid When I was a little kid a priest told me that "god" is the voice of my conscience and I should always listen to "god's" voice.

@Betty Hmm. IF that be so then how is then that Ministers of Religion have such glib and lying tongues then?
You'd think, would you not, that their conscience (aka the voice of god)would be loudest, the strongest and most undeniable of all, would you not?

@Triphid That's one of the reasons at the age of thirteen I turned away from organized religion and chose to live by the morals and values my mom taught me. It was later in life that I realized that those same morals and values were adopted by religions not created by them.

@Betty I was actually EXPELLED from Sunday Schools, all of the ones in my home-town btw, before my 9th. Birthday because I asked questions, not difficult ones, just ones that required the respondent to think and then answer honestly and openly.
Like the ne that
I remember most of all, I DARED to ask a Presbyterian Minister, Who was the Doctor who helped deliver the babies that Adam and Eve had?

@GrooshStar May I suggest that next time you get that answer ask them where exactly can the Universal Translator be found that God uses to implant his words in his language in to minds of humans.

@Triphid Good for you. I wish I had that kind of courage.