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Going back to a previous posting about depopulation I found a link to a combined nation European group dedicated to educating people on the population problem [] There’s also a Swedish group [] with another link to one in Britain. [] One of the active patrons in this last group is Sir David Attenborough.

JackPedigo 9 Dec 28

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Always easier to point fingers at other and say they are the problem. I had two children by my 1st marriage, Did either she or my 2nd wife go and have another child? If so was that the only child by the other father? I knew that I did not want more than one child but I may still have contributed to population growth. My parents did by having 4 children.
What matters more is what sort of consuming life will the children live? Two wealthy Group 7 children will likely have far more impact on consumption and waste.
I am an immigrant. In a way all but the aboriginals are immigrants. I do not like the flavour of some immigrants being better than others. Many immigrants to the USA are a result of USA policies in their home countries.

The issue is WE are all contributing to the problem. I try to learn but still point fingers at myself. How many kids we have is only one tiny issue (I have only one). Not one person has a positive effect on the planet. Even dying can create negative issues. The best we can do is learn and try to reduce our footprint. Again, it's not about immigrants but policies that regulate all life.


I have got no qualms about those in favour of population control, they can make a start by enlisting for voluntary euthanasia.


Controlling populations in the Western countries or more advanced ones at least is only a small part of the problem. The populations of Indonesia, Africa, Asia that are growing unchecked except by disease and war is the problem. The thousands that migrate out of those countries to the more developed countries and continue to breed fast than the average rabbit. It makes any kind of real population control almost meaningless until the poorest countries slow their reproductive rates.

Thank you, this is a major problem. The other problem is this issue has become emotionalized. One side uses the bleeding heart syndrome and the other vilifies people. Both are wrong. The U.S. gains some 3 million a year, 2 million directly or indirectly from immigration. The indirect comes from the first generation births from the new immigrants and, as you said, the fertility rate among the new immigrants is higher than the established citizens.

@JackPedigo But from what I see here, Mennonites and fundamentalist Christians often with 10 to 12 children. But the Western world sees little issue with 4 children who will go on to be high consumers.

@rogerbenham True, the fundamentalists do have larger families which accounts for the 1 million births from the citizens. These people are making the country have a net gain. If their birth rates were not so high we might actually be losing population (which we need to do). Unfortunately, there's another side to your remark. Religious organizations actively sponsor immigrants from other countries. They want to balance the deficit they are losing from too many of us 'waking' up to the crap they spew. When I was working there was a brother/sister couple from Cambodia who were brought here by the Mormons. My late partner experienced an absolutely crazy scheme were 32 immigrants in one family were brought here by some church group. The father had 4 wives and 27 kids. Apparently, this happens and the way around the multiple wives is to declare one as the wife and the others as 'family members.'


Gee, forty-five years ago First National Bank (Arizona's biggest bank) paid for a full-page ad in the Arizona Republic (Arizona's biggest daily newspaper) to attack Zero Population Growth (then America's biggest population control group) and I didn't know why until I realized that banks want to loan money to people to buy houses

I was living in Arizona then and after I left. the state went crazy-right.

Forty-five years ago ZPG was still going strong. Unfortunately, 22 years ago things started to change. The group needed more funding to get the message across and went to bed with corporations. The corporations wanted ZPG to drop any connection to immigration in the growth formula. There were a couple of 'bleeding hearts' among the board (of which I was a member) and started branding other members who did not go along with the change as being racist. The name got changed to Population Connection. Also, allied with ZPG was the Sierra Club. They had a separate population arm but, they too changed and kept anyone running for board membership to be elected if they thought immigration was a part of the problem. Unfortunately, I see a change in open, honest reporting even from NPR and PBS. Public media has become too expensive and the congress keeps dropping subsidies so more and more 'public' entity groups look to corporations for money.


I see a lot of posts from paranoid Americans who think that the government is plotting to take them out due to overpopulation, but that obviously is not true. How do I know . . . . ? Because the government is more concerned with wiping out people from other nations than practically anything else. Sad, but true.

If they truly think that why do they allow the proliferation of guns which is wiping us out. I know, they want a gun in order to protect themselves from the other guy with a gun.

@JackPedigo That argument does not work, because you would have to assume that that was their motive from the point that it was put in the Constitution. That would be pretty dubious considering that they needed their population of citizens more than ever at that time.

@JackPedigo I find it pretty alarming that American citizens are so callous and blind to what our government is doing to citizens in other nations, yet are obsessed with the idea that they are the target of our government's putative desire to wipe them out . . . . it is a clueless self-absorbed parochial mindset that has no desire to actually investigate anything beyond their own little bubble of existence, in fact, a form of actually trusting the government that they claim to distrust, and a complete lack of humanitarian concern for those of other cultures, races, and moors. Obviously, they will deny it, but their actual behavior and actions speak louder than words.


It can't (and likely won't) happen quickly enough.

Selfishness, mini-me matters more than the planet.

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