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Is it OK to be racist against white people?

Using the Merriam-Webster definition of racism,

racism
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

You CAN be racist against white people but is it OK?
Is it OK to tell an entire race they need to atone for the actions of their ancestors?
Is it OK to tell an entire race they are racist simply because of their race?
Is it OK to blame an entire race on the actions of 2 people?
Is it OK to purposely tell your kids to not trust an entire race?

Sadly I doubt I'll get many honest answers because it's not PC to you think racism is OK as long as those your racist against are white. But hope springs eternal.

  • 13 votes
  • 186 votes
MamaMOB 5 Apr 30
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126 comments

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3

IMHO, it's not ok to be racist against anyone. The Establishment in the US has already tried reverse racism (I just made that up, cool eh?), they called it Affirmative Action. Any time race is a factor in any situation, even with the "best of intentions" it's still racism and it's not ok. That's my more general answer to your specific questions.

7

It's not ok to be racist towards anyone regardless of colour.

2

Racism is a nonstarter. It is the means of last resort to justify something that is shitty in the first place.

3

It's not ok to be racist against anyone. And for historical facts.... Which certain people refuse to admit to... There were black slavemasters.

[snopes.com]

White Europeans were sold into slavery. No one wants to talk about that either.

[en.m.wikipedia.org]

Children should not be held responsible for the sins of their fathers.

3

It is not required to like anyone but everyone deserves to be treated right.

4

I forgot it's also not ok to blame people for the sins of their ancestors. Just like original sin is complete BS. Remember children are not racist until their parents teach it to them. When I was a young child I wanted to send my leftovers to Africa I never saw black children I saw hungry children. I couldn't understand why we had plenty of food and they didn't. To be that naive again.

0

Race is a nebulous concept. Everyone should be judged the same: we should all pass the same test to learn to drive. It’s not ok to burden anyone or to benefit anyone based on their race alone, or on their appearance alone, or on their IQ alone. Some of us are better at some things than others. Finding our path is not easy in this complex society. Pitfalls abound. And success or failure isn’t entirely up to us. But we live in a country full of opportunities. We should strive to do better, and if we do, our chances are good.

4

I understand the frustration, and I wish more on the Left realized how what they are saying comes across. While it may be true that white people statistically have it better economically, that shouldn't mean that it's okay for the loudest voices in public American culture to be shutting us up so often, or putting us down for something almost no living individual in our group actually has anything to do with.

Hi @MagRat,

I'd be curious to have an honest conversation about this polarizing topic in a sensible manner with someone with a different, but passionate, perspective on the matter.

Would you be interested in beginning a dialogue on this topic privately (via the messenger here on Agnostic)?

Rhetoric

8

He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. Nietzsche.

9

White privilege. I see this far too often and your questions are yet another example.

This is a non-sequitor, even if white privilege is a real thing which I highly doubt, does that somehow justify racism towards those of a lighter skin tone?

I’m definitely interested to hear your answer to this because from what I can tell from people who have dismissed questions such as these with a response like yours is that answer is yes.

Either that or they claim it’s it impossible to be racist towards white people since racism is defined as “prejudice + power” which is a terrible definition for racism since under that definition, groups like neo-nazis and the klu klux klan are not racist since they hold no institutional power.

I also realize that the typical identity politician will be quick to point out the fact that the positions of power in this country are held by white people, to which I say “yes, but are they kkk members or Nazis?” Who know maybe some indeed are but more than likely not the vast majority

What privilege do I have by simply asking this question? What privilege do I have at all? You're going to have to point out the actual privileges in my life for me to believe them. You know nothing about my life other than the fact that I'm white. You don't know if I was raised Rich or poor if I was raised by good parents or bad parents. But you assume that I'm privileged simply because of the color of my skin. That's what's called racism.

@Wavefunction show me where people of color hurt you. Were you ever denied a job based soley on your skin color? Housing? Do you tell your male children how to behave if they get pulled over by the police? Do have an a friend, relative that was shot to death at a routine traffic stop? Did your grandmother eat at a different table in a diner? Drink from a different water fountain? The list is endless. Not to have experienced any of these things..white privilege.
If one person in power is a racist, that's one too many.
Hitler was one man.

First of all, whether or not a person of color has ever hurt me is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. But since we are in the realm of personal anecdotes, I actually have been targeted because of my skin color: I was walking home one day only to be accosted by 6 thugs. Luckily I was much bigger than them (well bigger than most people) and it was easy enough to fight them off. Afterwards I told my friends about what happened they wanted to find these thugs and beat them up despite the fact I had successfully defended myself. These are the same friends who saved from the tribalistic mentality that “all people like this are criminals” you want to know why? Because my friends who came to my aid were black, my attackers were black. It was because of my awesome friends who I trust with my life, that I finally understood how someone could become racist , how to prevent it, and how to peel someone away from a belief system like that.

Now back to the discussion at hand, You still have yet to show how your response refutes OPs premise. Now if your claim is that “racism can’t be directed towards a member where they are the majority of population and hold most of the power; thus, the answer to OPs original question is no” , then I would ask is your definition of racism the use of institutional power wielded by individuals whose intent is to suppress people? If so fair enough as there are examples of this occuring (just look at the housing market and certain property value managing techniques).

However given the same claim, if your definition of racism is the colloquial definition (I’m fairly certain that is the one OP gave but I’d have to check), then you’re response is a non-sequitor since the definition has nothing to do with exercise of power, but rather more to do with a set of beliefs that lead to behaviors on the part of an individual. I take the later definition since it includes nazis and the kkk (both of which no longer hold institutional power, but are most assuredly racist)

Also as a side note, my grandmother grew up during the Great Depression and from a family that was rather poor so I don’t imagine they did much dinning out. Everyone has problems... if that’s how we’re defining privilege, then we all have western privilege because we don’t have to worry about living in a war zone where some isis terrorist might kidnap us and set us on fire. We are also in the top 10 (or maybe even 1) of the world’s wealth... even the poorest of us are just by virtue of social programs that are often nonexistent in places like Syria due to civil war or Venezuela due to the failed ideology of socialism.

I am incredibly lucky to live in an amazing nation, sure we definitely have our problems, and I’m not going to sit here and pull the “if u don’t like murca, you can hit ooout”. I’m just saying this to let you know that I am very aware of how lucky I and my friends are despite our 1st world problems.

2

Is.it ok to be racist against anyone? If 5he answer is no,then that's the answer to your question..

To answer your questions

1.No..Saying newer generations must pay for the crimes of old is saying like all of humanity was born sinful because some bitch ate some fruit....Can we execute the son because the father killed some folks.

2.Thats racist.

3.Nope

  1. And nope.
1

Of course it's not ok, but if you are, what can you do? A lot of white people make me cringe.

What you can do is not judge all white people on the ones that make you cringe. Try judging people based upon themselves and not the color of their skin. It's the best way to judge people.

2

Surely any form of prejudice or inequality is wrong. I am regarded as white, yet I have a decent amount of Australian aboriginal ancestry. I have many cousins who are considered completely as aboriginal. So how can any of us justify any racism?

4

White Irish and English villagers were kidnapped by pirates in the 15th and 16th centuries and sold into slavery in the Middle East. White Irish men and boys were sold to work on farms in the south. Chinese men and boys were sold into slavery in California and in the west to work on the Railroads in the 19th century. Which white people should we be racist against? Some called it indentured servitude, too, but all knew what it really was. I guess I don't get the point. Racism in any form is wrong.

@icolan It could be argued that serfdom and indentured servitude are forms of slavery since both were designed to have cheap labor and usually so that it was near impossible to raise your self out of being a serf or to buy your way out of indentured servitude.

Not always, in both cases (there are some counter examples) but far too often. As in charging for everything an indentured servant needed: food, lodging, clothing, etc. Doing so at rates such that to survive, you racked up more debt than you earned thus ensuring you would never be free.

Serfs... look at Russian history. The ruling class actually tried (and this was fairly honest efforts) to raise up the serfs but just were stupid about their economies and how they went about doing it and... the serfs were bound to the land (again).

@icolan Thank you for that!

@icolan excellent point! Wasn't my intent to water down true slavery. Just to NOT water down how bad serfdom or indentured servitude were.

How about different sides to a coin? One a bit mussed but generally in good condition, the other side damaged beyond any form of redemption.

@icolan I see some redeeming value in the original thought(s) behind indentured servitude. Basically, "you are in debt, here is a way to work your way out of debt and possibly learn a living" as some would be apprenticed (men) and some would be given jobs as maids or house servants (women, usually, which they might not have had before).

The problem is that, almost universally (leastwise, I have only read rare accounts of this working the way it seems to have been intended) the 'jobs' were set up so that it was virtually impossible to earn your way out of debt, through any of a number of nefarious mechanisms.

So, it's less the idea that I think is twisted about and evil, it's the way people used that idea for personal profit and gain at the expense of others.

In fact, we still do the basic idea, I've had kids borrow money with no way of paying off their debt so, I employed them to help me with a project to cover for said debt. It -can- be done honestly and well.

@icolan I view it a lot like Communism, Democracy and a number of other institutions that are wonderful on paper but crash and burn when they meet the human ability to twist things to their own ends.

19

The question you ask is a false dichotomy that misses the complexity of the issue. There is a difference between racist attitudes and systemic oppression. People of color are institutionally oppressed in the United States. This means that it is harder for minorities to get jobs than white people. It means minorities are more likely to be found guilty of crimes and are sentenced more harshly. It means that minorities are more likely to be denied housing in desirable areas and forced to live in areas with higher crime and fewer resources. It means that minority children are more likely to be suspended from school - even as young as preschool - further widening the gap in education quality between white and minority students, and fueling the preschool-to-prison pipeline. I could go on and on. Does this apply to every black/Latino/Middle Eastern/etc., person? Of course not. But data does not lie. People of color are statistically more likely to face these barriers and more. And and even the poorest, most marginalized white populations still hold a level of privilege over minorities.

It is absolutely not okay to be treated badly for something you have no control over. But I wonder if it's possible that what you are perceiving as racism against white people is actually frustration about the barriers listed above and anger at white people who accept the privilege that their skin color affords them without ever engaging in any type of reflection about how they are impacted by this, or who try to "whitesplain" why racism no longer exists rather than listening to the actual lived experiences of people of color.

If you are so inclined, I highly recommend reading some of Peggy McIntosh's work on the subject, and completing the Invisible Knapsack questionnaire for yourself. I'll include the link for you. Hope you are having a wonderful day. 🙂

Source:

A very big discussion indeed it is. It’s beyond the subject of this group, I think.

Really good stuff in your comment.

Love your reply.

1

All racism is wrong. Racism against white people is merely rare.

3

There is an easy answer: it is NOT ok to be racist. Leave it there, and you can do no wrong.

Racism is a political construct. It has NOTHING to do with physiology, mentality, spirituality or anything other than how to make a profit by holding another group of peoples under your knee (thumb, heel, whatever). It's false and just wrong on all levels.

It isn't ok against anyone, for any reason.

0

I wish I was like my dog, he doesn't see color or appearance, he sees people.
Racism will probably be with us for a long, long time until we willfully extinguish it from the majority. Racism will persist though, I don't think we will be able to exterminate it completely from each and every culture. Until we can eliminate need and want there will always be those who seek someone to blame, someone to hate as the perceived source of discontent.
I hope I am proven wrong but I fear I won't be.
Now your question : You CAN be racist against white people but is it OK?
No it's not OK, I think it is more tolerated by the general population, it's still not OK to be a racist in my book.
The other questions reek of racism, they seem to be searching for something to validate the racist views held by themselves.
This is just my opinion of course, for whatever it's worth.

6

Latest DNA research proves there are no races, just varying colors of one race, human. So stop with the labeling!

You are correct in your statement, race is a social construct.

@SallyMc nope, MacTavish is right....google it! Only 1 race, human, sort of like varieties of lettuce, or corn.

@SallyMc Prove race by DNA. You may get what color their skin is but not race, race is much more than skin color although society tries to make it out to be less.

@MacTavish you cannot/will not get skin color from DNA! You will get "area of origin" (your ancestors lived here only!

@SallyMc you Cannot agree or disagree with FACTS....YOU CAN FOOLISHLY DENY THEM.......oh, unless you live in in drumpland, or that book, "1984".

@SallyMc wow...not only do you ignore Facts (just Google it!) You cannot read/comprehend either.....i am "feeding the OP"......when I have been in total opposition with every post. Wow.

@AnneWimsey @MacTavish you cannot/will not get skin color from DNA! You will get "area of origin" (your ancestors lived here only!

[officer.com]
July 1, 2009
[academic.oup.com]
November 1, 2014
[smithsonianmag.com]
October 17, 2017
It is possible to determine skin coloration from DNA as I thought.
SallyMc, your documentation ma'am.

1

Any form of racism is ignorant and counter productive, so no it's never okay to be racist. I grew up in a multicultural community and while racism was frowned upon and uncommon it was still there, probably because we are taught from an early age to identify differences. One of these is not like the other, one of these things is kinda the same, right out of Sesame Street.
I built several projects in Bermuda and I was the subject of racist comments and slurs on many occasions from the black majority. I was even told that these comments weren't racist because racism is a 'white thing', it was an eye opener to say the least. In the past I had approached racism as a negative thing to be frowned upon but I did so from the white majority perspective, it is quite humbling to be on the other end of the stick.
Interestingly enough, the island I had be building on prior to my work in Bermuda was very racist but from an Elitist White point of view, it was a virtual apartheid system and I felt very sorry for the blacks and how they were treated by the wealthy, white land owners. I wouldn't comply with some of the directives I was given and in the end it was so unbearable that I left. I did all I could to help my black workers, they even nicknamed me Bob the Builder because I was the little white guy that made everything good. These were good men who weren't being allowed to reach their potential because of elitist and racist people. No, racism is never a good thing no matter who is on the receiving end.

@MagRat Not me, just a Canadian who grew up in the most multicultural city in the world. Any man on my crew who pulls his weight gets my respect, if they don't pull their weight I'll skin them alive and I don't care what colour the skin is.

2

Not possible. There is no racism against white people, period. That's my opinion.

Factually incorrect.

If that is truly how you feel why don't you go spend some significant time in a low income minority neighborhood. Please tell me how it goes.

@GregGasiorowski I will not engage in discourse regarding this, and don't care about what you think the facts are.

You may have to look a little further afield than your own backyard but I can assure you that there is plenty of racism against people, racism has no colour limitations.

@Surfpirate I understand the subject perfectly, and have lived all over the world. This poll is so out of touch, it sickens me. I made my statement, and am not going to discuss it further.

@MollyBell No worries, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

lmfao. You take a stance, and refuse to defend, or discuss it? then why did you even open your mouth, since your following silence makes your statement worthless.

2

You CAN be racist against white people but is it OK?
Not ok.

Is it OK to tell an entire race they need to atone for the actions of their ancestors?
Yes where that "entire race" (looks like you've forgotten a few countries here) is still enjoying benefits and privileges deriving from those actions while others are still denied access to same.

Is it OK to tell an entire race they are racist simply because of their race?
No, and AFAIK this is a straw man (Cf comment re forgotten countries)

Is it OK to blame an entire race on the actions of 2 people?
Those actions can be indicative of wider problems within the society which divide along ethnic lines. This is particularly true of countries like Australia which have long histories of entrenched, legally enforced racism which was not repealed until a time within living memory. It took 400 years for the scars of the Norman invasion of England to mostly heal, and they were literally cousins. The subjugation of peoples does not heal quickly.

Is it OK to purposely tell your kids to not trust an entire race?
Probably not, but it may keep your kids alive. Is it alright to tell my daughter not to trust men? 99.9% of men will not harm her in any way, but it only takes one rapist.

0

Dr King saved most White Americans from racism, for which we can be eternally grateful. Unfortunately no one has yet performed that task for most Black Americans. President Barack Obama should have done that job, but instead he fed the flames of racial animosity. Of course some Black Americans are among the very best of us (I'm thinking of Thomas Sowell), but I do perceive a lot of anti-White racism among a lot of Black Americans. Deep in my heart, I do believe, we shall overcome some day.

Dr King did what?? Barack Hussein Obama did what? Could you elaborate pleas

Dr King's speech at the Lincoln Memorial was the single most consequential public address in US history. He didn't convert racist bigots, but after that speech a majority of White Americans were on his side.
As for Obama, his presidency could have been a celebration of a post-racial America. Instead he spent his 8 years in office fanning the flames of racial antagonism. And today we live with the consequences of his actions.

3

It's not okay to be racist. Period.

Deb57 Level 8 May 1, 2018
1

The only question is "Is it OK to be racist" anything more is irrelevant.

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