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Why do humans have an unhealthy obsession with wars and sacrifice?

Even amongst atheists there appears a lingering obsessions with the war and the idea that "self-sacrifice" is a noble act.

PontifexMarximus 8 May 3
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This particular case very much upset me and drove me to study the subject for several months.

I wanted to know why people would do such a thing. After reading many books on the subject and more on psychology and sociology I came to the conclusion that it comes down to altruism.

In order to survive as a species we had to have altruistic behaviors like most other animals. This altruistic instinct causes use to do bad things for perceived "good causes" and also causes us to reject self seeking behaviors and sound judgment. It makes us almost thoughtlessly want to risk our lives to save a child from getting hit by a car.

Why do humans have an unhealthy obsession with wars and sacrifice?    It is because we are human.
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There is no glory in death just the graveyard. war is not about conquest power Money love anything it's just because men love it lol

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Blood lust

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War is for suckers because the people doing the dying are never the ones reaping the rewards. Self sacrifice is what you should be willing to do for those your love and for the preservation of your core values but never for religion or nationalism.
If I must kill another living being I want it to have more meaning than just because they were wearing a different coloured uniform than I was.

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Forgive my broken record but...

Evolution.

skado Level 9 May 3, 2018
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Don't get excited it's a way for the elate to control the masses then out the hurds!

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I honestly think they enjoy killing and beating each other. have you seen what chimps do to strange chimps?

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Wars are primarily class wars. Most people heard about the Geneva convention but seem to ignore their class cimenting nature. Amongst many peopl persists the illusion that wars are about national solidarity.

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Our educational system has us sitting still and being lectured to all day, everyday, systematically preventing us from exploring our own experiences (no daydreaming). The things we are taught, the food we eat, the images we are exposed to are all part of the picture. When tracing history as far back as possible it becomes evident the masculine has dominated over the feminine (not necessarily men over women). Centuries of breeding men to be tough and domineering led to "slaves" rebelling. Men from more balanced cultures either assimilated to the European brand of masculinity or risked being deemed too feminine. Before we were even old enough to understand what we were doing or that we could make our own choices the programming had done it's damage. We must raise future generations to think for themselves, question everything and respect other life forms in order for the future to look any differently.

Thank you for an interesting comment. Conditioning is the key.

@PontifexMarximus You are certainly welcome and definitely correct about conditioning being a key to how we got this way.

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Propaganda. It's socially, politically and religiously peddled to give of ones self without care or thought for the good or the reality of any of it.

AmyLF Level 7 May 3, 2018
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I think self sacrifice can be noble, if sometimes ill-advised. I'd take a bullet for my wife or children. Self-sacrifice is based on empathy which is enabled by the evolved / selected trait of possessing mirror neurons. If I want to spare someone else death or suffering then I might, under the right conditions, sacrifice my life for theirs.

Applying this to war however becomes rather dicey because soldiers are conditioned to do what they do without thinking, to blindly follow orders, and the self-sacrifice is all front-loaded in the oath they take when they become soldiers. And 99 (if not 100) times out of 100, war is avoidable, and is engaged in for various expedient socioeconomic and political motivations.

This "unhealthy obsession" is essentially tribal in nature. It is displacing one's problems onto the Hated Other. It is deliberately dehumanizing the enemy (indeed the very label "enemy" is itself dehumanizing).

So I would say that war gives self-sacrifice a bad name.

But for you to be able to take the bullet there must have been a bullet maker and the one who paid for the bullets ... War is always avoidable if nobody goes

@PontifexMarximus In the context of taking a bullet there are not just wars but robbers and criminals, which is what I had in mind. And absent bullets there are knives and cudgels and fists. My point is that there are contexts in which I would sacrifice myself, but to clarify, war isn't one of them.

@mordant good point ,,, but to protect your family you would have to be at home and not in Afghanistan or Syria.

@PontifexMarximus Um ... well, yes, that is my point. You were asking generally about self sacrifice. There are contexts and places in which I would do it. What passes for war these days isn't one of them.

You make a good point, though: wars are often fought on the pretext of "protecting" the homeland and, by extension, our families. That's extending one's legitimate instinct to protect one's loved ones, into someone else's leaky abstraction / shaky justification.

I wonder, though, how you regard war as a response to, not merely provocation, but to actual attack. If, say, NK dropped a nuke on Guam or Hawaii or Anchorage or Seattle (and assuming purely for the sake of argument that we in no way provoked it), my thought is that a minimalist response is best because they would at that point have shot their whole wad anyway. On the other hand if the USSR nuked a dozen US cities, I don't think there's any choice but a proportionate response. If needed to stop further attacks, even a disproportionate response. In other words I'm wondering what your attitude is toward a so-called "just war" like WW2 mostly was, vs mere colonial adventurism and thinly concealed asset-grabbing like Iraq. Is there ANY war you would not rule out?

This is an honest question. Personally I'm not sure. I don't think we should start wars, but if someone starts a war with us (not merely provokes or insults or pisses us off or scares us, but an actual war), I don't see how we can roll over and play dead, either.

Well stated and well written.

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It helps to keep the population down, there by allowing us to procreate more. This is as good a reason as any ?

Especially male competition

@PontifexMarximus
That is quiet right my friend, more women for us that are left behind !

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Self sacrifice is a noble act. It appears to be based on a genetic trait bred into us through natural selection. Survival of the tribe, if you will. The group that had more males willing to fight and die to protect their group was more successful in surviving competition with others.
As for warfare, I admit that for me personally, there has been nothing in my life to compare to the feelings of attacking "the enemy", and winning.
I'd guess that Conan The Barbarian answered correctly; "What is best?".....

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I wonder if that's always the case, or is it mostly when and where business men see an angle?

Spot on, wars are for some to get rich and someone or group wants to rule over people. Not even the Revolutionary War was immune from that, many a colonist did not want war with England knowing only a few would prosper or rule.

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STUPIDITY! Just a guess.

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