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If there existed a completely secular country, completely free of all religion, whos values and aspirations were entirely devoted in the spirit of reason logic and science to the responsible progression of Humanity in the pursuit of peace, prosperity ,equality, freedom of thought, and protection of our planet and all life therin. My question to you is would you, if you were free to do so, emmigrate to, and become a citizen of this state?

Feel free to answer Yes or No. Or give your opinion.

Hitchens 8 May 3
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23 comments

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6

Isn't that the Netherlands? I'd move in a heartbeat

No..I think Sweden Norway and Denmark..are more aspirationally closer...but no state has yet to achieve this standard yet....here's hoping! ??

No..I think Sweden Norway and Denmark..are more aspirationally closer...but no state has yet to achieve this standard yet....here's hoping! ??

@Hitchens I have friends who live in Sweden. I'll move there too. I'd move anywhere to get out of the US

@AncientNight It sounds promising, if it's going to be a utopian paradise, there is no harm in it looking like one too. I wouldnt choose one thats too small though..as there may be quite a lot of would be citizens. ??

@helionoftroy Don't go packing your bags just yet...things may improve after Mr Trump is removed.

@helionoftroy Don't go packing your bags just yet...things may improve after Mr Trump is removed.

@AncientNight Ha Ha..Lol..
That sounds like it would be a riot..!!....
More like headanism than Athiesm! ????

5

I see my duty as staying here and doing my best to make this a better place.

Certainly the best response to that question that I hadn't even considered. My complements to you. I suppose some things are worth fighting for...even today. Thank you.

4

Might depend on the weather, but I would give it serious consideration.

I'm taken aback about how many respondents main concern was the climate! It's hilarious.??? Especially the ladies...they must be thinking..hmm utopian paradise sounds amazing but what should I wear? And will I need heels and or hiking boots..hmm decisions..decisions??

I'm taken aback about how many respondents main concern was the climate! It's hilarious.??? Especially the ladies...they must be thinking..hmm utopian paradise sounds amazing but what should I wear? And will I need heels and or hiking boots..hmm decisions..decisions??

@Hitchens, I need more than just this atheist Utopia (which sounds like it could get boring), and Sunshine makes me feel good. So I would be less likely to make the move if it were someplace that rarely had sunny days.

@BeeHappy ok I'll make a few calls and see what I can do...no promises though. ☀️??????

@Hitchens Much appreciated!! 🙂

@BeeHappy Well I'm here for the community, and I really want you to Bee Happy.

@Hitchens Really, you are too kind! Or... are you just trying to build up the population of your new utopia?

My thoughts exactly.

4

A certain percentage of the population will Always be serial killers, pedophiles, or just plain whacko, unless you practice selective euthanasia.
I sell these handy DIY guillotine kits......

Is the guillotine for removing the head or genitalia of these offenders? It may be less messy to deport these undesirables....

@Hitchens singing "free" ( their) minds, and the rest will follow.........

"Live and let live, but shoot the gremlins."

@AnneWimsey build it....and they will come! (Field of Dreams) ??

@AnneWimsey, @KCBear
Come with me and you'll see,..its a world of pure imagination. ????? Umpa Lumpas welcome..Gremlins will not be admitted.

3

I'd surely be tempted, but it would be fulfilling as hell to try to get our own country on this path!

Again I commend this as a valid answer. Its couragous and optimistic. If everybody felt this way the world would definately be a better place. ?

2

If religious people had real faith in God, they wouldn't pass their religion on down to their children because they'd be sure that God would find them anyway. This should be put into law, making it illegal to pass on a religion. After a few generations, the world would be peaceful and free of all these warring spirits.

I believe there will eventually be an age of enlightenment where this will occour naturally without the need for any draconian legislation.

2

A completely secular country ( which I hope this one will be eventually sometime in the future ) still have to have rules, therefore a form of government is needed (not religion), there will be still common needs such as roads, services like trash collection, etc therefore taxes are still required (not religion), to pay taxes people will need jobs and the will to work (not religion), to get a job people will need education so this secular country will need universities (not religion) and the list can go on and on to things like a football team, a stadium, parks, museums, titi-bars, markets....everything life has to offer but religion. Of course you will still need the right from wrong type of system with police, courts and judges so they can put anyone sorry ass in jail if breaks the law... But not religion. Such country not only is possible...it is bound to happen, all you have to do is look at the historical trend over time. Give it another 100 years tops....

2

A firm I would seriously consider moving. Where is this country?

I haven't founded it yet, because I am still building my shed..and there is so much paperwork and red tape involved in setting up a new Utopian state. But as the founder and benelovent dictator..I will require various ministers to help me administrate this new state . I'll be in touch...oh yes and I will need two references.

@Hitchens Fabulous! I will dust off my resume and references. Let me know! ?

??? great, there maybe some light housework and typing required. Also some experience governing a country would be a distinct advantage.

@Hitchens lets see what I can come up with for equivalent to running a county ???

2

Is the Pope Catholic??? Of course I would...in a heartbeat. Do you have somewhere in mind?

Bears are Catholic and the Pope does shit in the woods, ..But no.. That's the only catch Patchoulli Julie, it doesn't exist, but wouldnt it be a wonderful place to live and die in.. Complete with pain free Euthanasia for those that choose it.

@Hitchens Oh...be still my beating heart! lol

@patchoullijulie ????

1

Well yes but knowing human nature we would soon find plenty of other things to argue about. There is no Utopia.

Most of us here are atheist, most are humanist but still we disagree on topics. Values that we base our laws on are so subjective. If I had my way every boring plain wall would be covered in beautiful graffiti. That wouldn't suit others. I would still argue with my neighbour about his loud country music.

But at heart, I am a socialist and so of course I would embrace those ideals. Religions are dangerous and exploitative and divisive. I see no good coming from them at all.

1

Looks to me as though most responders want to live in a classic Watchtower illustration!

It's interesting that if you offered people that cry out for secular and progressive values the opportunity to live in a state that promotes all the values they aspire to.....many still would prefer to stay in their own countries...
I may have to give all this land back now....

1

A completely secular country would be impossible.It would cease being completely secular, once the first boat-load of Pilgrims, or plain-load of Moonies arrived. And a completely secular World won't come about for many hundreds of years into the future. Maybe not even then. I think Humanity would first have to evolve to a higher level.

We could politely refuse entry to religious groups...and those that clandestinely gain entry or those that attempt to set up cults etc could be either be deported or jailed and brutally tortured.

1

That country is what the US was supposed to be when it was founded. We let the bastards ruin it.

1

Yes especially if it was warm !

It's exactly the way you like it, or you get a full refund no quibble. ???

1

Once I became a citizen wouldn't I lose my sovereignty? That sounds like an oxymoron to me but yes I would be willing to go back to tribal living which is basically what you described.

You wouldn't lose Sovereignty Creativeyou actually you would inherit complete sovereignty over your own freedom and liberty and be a citizen of a Free State. It would be a place where there are no b.s. religions or politics hiding behind religion..a place where citizenship is truly valued like shares in the best company on the stock market...where you ate valued. Not a cult..not b.s. scientology..not a tribal thing..not flower power..not free love (unless you feel the need) just a place where the complications of Religion are removed and humanity comes first . We would have no need for war or racism etc our only battles would be against ignorance and cancer all the other good fights. Maybe some day who knows?

@Hitchens Oh I looked it up and we are both right depending on which definition is being used.
This is what I thought it meant: a legally recognized subject or national of a state or commonwealth, either native or naturalized.
One cannot be sovereign and subject to a nation or state. The minute we become "subjects" we are no longer sovereign but it also just means member of a community but to me it implies subjugation. (Thanks for helping me add to my mental dictionary.)

@CreativelyMe excellent...Im so glad we cleared that up...I feel sure this hypothetical community would not want to subjugate you. ?

1

Yes, I would like to live in such a place and would be eager to move there. However, being human and use to comfort, I -- like many others who commented previously -- would like for this utopia also to have a comfortable climate. I often find myself researching the web to learn about places that are good to live in and have four distinct seasons, but cooler summers and warmer winters than my current residence.

Hi Red, did you find any area that came close to your criteria?

@Hitchens Still looking and brushing up on what little Spanish I know. Thinking of a higher elevation somewhere in Central or South America, but there seems to be political instability in most places I think might be interestng. But we also have political instability in the good ol USA, thanks to rabid right religious freaks and white supremacy bigots. Seeking a place with a large enough population to have plentiful social/entertainment opportunities, but not a metropolis. Also not too far from a major airport or from a large lake or beach and some scenic areas
.

@RedRiverRogue yea America appears to have lost it's way for sure. That is the dilemma isn't it...finding paradise is not too difficult...but finding the right place at the right time with the right location and the right climate with a stable government that has a tolerant and friendly populace that aren't always in imminent danger of starvation or slaughter. It's a tough one.

1

I would seriously consider it, although I might feel once I got there that I was limited or regulated to believe what the allowable belief would be there. Regulated behaviour and belief is something that I wouldn't be comfortable with. I understand laws, etc., but there is a set of behaviours implied in the question. They sound better in general, but humans judge each other and that judgement can be uncomfortable anywhere. ie. You are with us or against us.

No ..it wouldn't be that way at all as I would envision it. You could believe anything you wanted without any judgement or prejudice of any description. Im not talking about a crazy cult like scientology or waco or anything negitive or destructive or anything that. Just imagine a place on a map where you would like to live, it might be where you live now if you like. Polution is outlawed, cruelty to children and animals is not tolerated, equality is promoted, there is no organised religion. People without agnostic or non humanist values and principles wouldnt populate the place anyway, in theory you would have to apply for citizenship i the first place.

@Hitchens Then in that case.....I am in!

1

Yes

1
1

John Lennon just popped into my head with imagine..?

0

I probably would not. They would have a different set of government and political stupidities.

0

No. Pretty dull. Sounds like Huxley’s Brave New World.

0

No, it sounds boring,

cava Level 7 May 3, 2018

What's boring about it? You can do everthing you can do now, and enjoy all the benifits of complete guilt free liberty!

@Hitchens Sounds like the atheist version of heaven, an idle but perhaps necessary compensation fantasy for some.

@cava Yes of course it's fantasy and would indeed be heaven. But in the future when you and I are dust particles..it might become a reality..too late for us, but an interesting aspiration to dream about nonetheless.

@cava Yes of course it's fantasy and would indeed be heaven. But in the future when you and I are dust particles..it might become a reality..too late for us, but an interesting aspiration to dream about nonetheless.

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