Repeat something often enough, and it becomes the truth. And that's what feminism has done with "Rape is about power rather than sex."

The reality is that rape is often about power, but sometimes it's about sex (and no doubt sometimes it's about both.) The case of the man who raped a 12 year old boy in a German swimming pool wasn't about having power over the boy. The rapist was having what he described as 'a sexual emergency', having not had any other outlet for a period of time, and decided that entitled him to use the boy as a means of dealing with that emergency.

[psychologytoday.com]

@NicoleCadmium that's power. he decided that he was going to use this person for his own gratification. that's power . He could have jacked off. If the boy was willing he probably wouldn't have wanted him .In some cases where a man can't use his dick, He'll use another weapon to rape. My mother once told me something really terrible, but I believe it's the 100% truth. Men always masturbate,but sometimes they do it inside women. Rape is sexual intercourse forced upon another individual against their will.

@Kojaksmom No, that isn't about power. He didn't even know the boy. He just felt that he needed an opportunity to pleasure himself using someone else's body rather than his own, and felt justified in using the boy to achieve that. Surely we all know the massive difference in sensation between pleasuring yourself and someone else's body pleasuring you. They're chalk and cheese.

As far as I'm concerned, the myth that rape is always about power is thoroughly debunked by the article that I linked to previously. Yes, it's been enshrined in feminist lore since the 60s, but that doesn't mean it's right. When there's an existing relationship (friendship, family, or other means by which the rapist knows the victim) there's a good chance that the motive is primarily about power. But in cases where the victim is selected randomly, it's more likely that the rapist just feels they need a sexual outlet that they can't currently find through any other means. Rape is sometimes purely about a male putting his penis inside someone else because he has a strong urge to indulge his animal instinct to do this. In the absence of a consenting individual, some of them target a non-consenting one.

Of course some feminists believe that all sex between a man and a woman amounts to rape, even if the woman consents and actively wants it. The "all rape is about power" mantra isn't quite that degree of nonsense, but it's heading in that direction.

Just going to park this extract here:

"Viewed dispassionately, the ‘rape is about power, not sex’ claim appears problematic on its face. First, human behavior is multiply determined. Meaningful human events have more than one reason, and are shaped by more than a single motive or force. Rape is a human event. It is motivated by more than one thing. Second, to claim that sex—one of our most powerful motives (our species’ existence depends on it, after all)—is somehow absent from an act that routinely involves erection, vaginal penetration, and ejaculation defies reason. Arguing that rape is not about sex is akin to asserting that gun violence is not about guns. Both claims betray an incomplete, and politicized, view."

@NicoleCadmium if he didn't know the boy it couldn't be about power? I quit

@Kojaksmom I'm not saying it couldn't be. I'm saying it isn't the same 'teach them a lesson' motive that's present when a man rapes his wife, or someone known to him, as punishment for doing something, in an attempt to bring them into line, and because he feels entitled to behave that way. In the swimming pool scenario, the rapist didn't know the child, didn't have any reason to punish him, and even admitted to what he claimed to be 'a sexual emergency.'

I'm not denying that rape is often about power, but there are different acts in different situations that qualify as rape. Some of those are about power. Some of those are about sex. Many will be about a combination of the two. Indeed, sexual powerplay is most of the basis of BDSM. Albeit ultimately consensually, it's there on an instinctive level for many people.

But stick to your 50 year old mantra if you like. Ignore the modern change in thinking and clear evidence that it's incorrect. Just don't expect to go unchallenged when you declare something as universally true when there are clear and demonstrable exceptions.

@NicoleCadmium I'm not saying it a hundred percent of the situations either. if every man jacked off 10 times a day they're probably would still be rape

Another extract:

Contemporary feminist scholars, alert to the limitations of the ‘rape is about power’ dogma, have also risen to the challenge of providing a more nuanced, empirically based and hence useful understanding of rape. For example, a recent paper by Beverly McPhail (link is external) of the University of Houston seeks to knit together several feminist theories of rape into a new comprehensive model. In a useful and poignant reminder that the political is personal, she notes that rape is both “a political, aggregate act whereby men as a group dominate and control women as a group,” and “a very personal, intimate act in which the body of a singular person is violated by another person(s).” Rape, she asserts further, “occurs due to multiple motives rather than the single motivation... The multiple motivations include, but are not limited to, sexual gratification, revenge, recreation, power/control, and attempts to achieve or perform masculinity.”

@Kojaksmom "Rape is not about sex. Rape is about power."

Seems pretty absolute to me.

I imagine the majority of rape is about both sex and power, perhaps with some other motives thrown in too (as per the extract I just posted.)

@NicoleCadmium I disagree when you say rape is simply about sexual satisfaction. Rape is a crime. it is never consensual , and there's always a power-play involved.rape is not normal as you seem to be suggesting. So according to your theory if we legalize prostitution, and increase the number of prostitutes in all areas, the rape rate would decline dramatically. I say it would not reduce the incidence of rape.

@NicoleCadmium well the question is how would you reduce the incidence of rape you don't answer that

@Kojaksmom Please! I have never said that rape was simply about sexual satisfaction. You're the one who's said it's simply about power. I believe there are scenarios where it can be simply about power, there are scenarios where it can be simply about sex, and that in the majority of cases, it's about both.

The whole point of the article that I linked to is that rape, like most human behaviours, is complicated. The motives can vary from individual to individual and situation to situation. Modern day feminist academics can see that the assertion that "rape isn't about sex, it's about power" is incorrect, and always was. And so I tend to challenge it whenever I see it.

Where is the power play in raping someone who's unconscious? We know that this happens a lot. It might be premeditated when there's drink spiking or date rape drugs involved, but in situation where someone has passed out and someone proceeds or continues to have sex with them anyway, where is this sense of control? In these scenarios, it's usually a guy who finds his potential partner has fallen asleep, and goes ahead and has sex with them anyway. That kind of rape is simply a combination of high sexual arousal and sense of entitlement (from thinking that they were on a promise) usually combined with a large quantity of drink that clouds their judgement. And before you try to twist those words on me (as seems to be your approach to this discussion thus far) I don't believe for one minute that being drunk excuses rape. That said, I bet there's a massive correlation, since alcohol tends to be a factor in many forms of violent behaviour.

And yes, I believe that increased accessibility to affordable prostitution would prevent some cases of rape. I don't believe it would prevent the majority, where both sex and power over a specific individual are motives.

@Kojaksmom Responding to your latest post (we just crossed posts.)

So now you're trying to change the topic of this sub thread, which was never about how either of us would change rape culture. But since you ask, I'd dearly love to get away from the idea that sex is something that someone in the insertive role 'does to' someone in the receptive role. I wish people could see (consensual, pleasurable) sex for the mutually beneficial symbiosis that it is. Put an end to stud adulation and slut shaming, once and for all.

Sadly, I believe rape instinct goes beyond cultural values. Our closest cousins by intelligence, dolphins, frequently mate through rape. If the male biological function is to spread his DNA as far and wide as possible, then rape is a successful mating strategy. And this is why we, as a society, make rape the awful thing it is (worse than murder) to counter that instinctive urge in males to have sex with people, regardless of consent. An urge that most are in control of, but clearly some still are not.

Not that all sexual predators are male. In fact, I'd like to see UK law remove the emphasis on penetration of the victim. As our law stands, the maximum sentence for a male forcing or coercing a female to perform oral sex on him is 25 years. If it's a female forcing or coercing a male to do the same to her, the maximum sentence is 10 years. When it comes to penetration, there's the assumption that an erection in a male amounts to consent. Consent doesn't work like that. There are plenty of reasons why a male might be aroused by a situation but still not agree to sex. Being faithful to a partner being the obvious one.

We could make rape even more awful and hateful (I think we're making more progress there.) Encourage victims to come forward and emphasise that it is never their fault (stop asking women what they were wearing.) Perhaps even harsher sentences for those convicted. At the same time, if someone makes a rape allegation, it goes to court, and it's proven beyond reasonable doubt that their allegation was false (basically, they're caught out in an obvious lie) then they should face the same harsh sentencing as those they'd have had falsely imprisoned. It's ludicrous that someone could put someone in prison for 25 years on the basis of a lie, and suffer a much lesser sentence if they're caught out doing it.

Somewhere in the region of 12% of UK rape allegations are proven to be false. Obviously that behaviour impacts the credibility of the other 88%.

I agree with this, but at the same time, there are some men who become sexually aroused by violence, which suggests a sexual component and I don't think this has really been scientifically studied or analysed by psychologists enough.

This link between violence and sexual arousal needs to studied more, because it's quite disturbing.

@NicoleCadmium, @Ellatynemouth The meme is oxymoronic on its face but emotionally compelling, by definition both a sexual act and an aggressive act together is what constitutes rape so it needs a disclaimer, "rape is not about 'consensual' sex". Arguing the literal meaning with the implied meaning leads nowhere. I like evidenced-based solutions, that testosterone moderates aggression and sexual desire is well established. Rape is and should be a crime, are there things we can do to make fewer men rapists or reduce the number of victims per rapist? almost certainly. It is unfortunately true that potential victims should look for risk reducing behaviors. "I shouldn't have to worry about being raped" which I agree with 100% is not the same as I don't have to worry about being raped.

Both Bill Cosby and Matt Lauer were very well liked people. Everyone thought they were squeaky clean and role models. You can only imagine how difficult it was for some woman to come in and burst the bubble.

@McVinegar

Police officers are NOT social referees. Do not misread, thank you.

@McVinegar

Yes they are, but the police is beside the idea of a social referee. A social referee understands the nature of the moment of two people interacting, and respects the privacy of others, but will intervene when things begin to become socially harmful. The referee can use physical force if necessary.

@McVinegar I can agree on that, we just need to come up with viable methods is all, so more experimenting might be necessary.

True and neither will murder and other crimes. the human animal is just an animal.

@McVinegar Humans have proven themselves, as a species, to be absolute asshats. From destroying forests to polluting the ocean to murdering innocent animals for SPORT!!!???!!!! to murdering each other over imaginary sky daddies.....to raping each other....abusing each other....exploiting and enslaving each other..... look around around and open your eyes. The species ISN'T getting smarter, kinder, or evolving into something better.

@McVinegar Well, not if the picture is accurate. hahaha!

@McVinegar Ooh, that's always been on my list, and I LOVE Steve Buscemi. SO MUCH. So I'll check it out and get back to you.

I have a tendency to think just like you.

@McVinegar

1. I'm not on 23 and me.
2. Collected data can't put you at a crime scene as DNA can.
3. No, the people do not hold any power.
4. No it's not too late but will take a massive change to our governmental systems to make a real difference.
5. No we should not give up but we all have to somehow come together as one before we can make a real change.

@McVinegar what's that got to do with my post?

@Hebert54 @jorj So, let's equally educate both girls and boys. Either way, the person committing the crime is doing it for power and control.

Rape is less about sex and more about power and phychological abuse.

My understanding is that it's not about , it's about having power over another person.

Not true. Rape is NOT about . It is about power. Because seriously, everybody has a hand. Well, I mean, no, not everyone, but if they don't have hands, they probably also aren't out raping people. Self-gratification is available to everyone. It has nothing to do with people rape.

@McVinegar
Prostitution of people would be the wrong step, since it's 2 or more people, when it could be a person and their pleasure providing tool.

@McVinegar
I am not opposed to that happening or it even being legalized, but I can see how it would be a negative in how males and females interact.

For example I don't want to pay a woman to do what I can get for free.
When your pleasure comes from a tool, it's negating the need of transforming a woman into a tool for satisfaction

@McVinegar It's coming from numerous studies done over numerous years. It is used as a war tactic. So, no, it's not biased. It's fact.

Please explain these flaws of which you speak.

Who said anything about giving government DNA??